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Hugo Friedhofer deserves the award too then, because he wrote a good portion of that score (including the main theme, I've heard).
Yavar
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Why? Just because he's an orphan?
I love Zorro and Batman about equally... I admit I've never really delved into The Shadow but what I've encountered is certainly intriguing.
Yavar
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You have to exclude Superman from consideration if this is gonna be an interesting discussion. Like "who's the best James Bond....other than Connery?"
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You have to exclude Superman from consideration if this is gonna be an interesting discussion. Like "who's the best James Bond....other than Connery?"
Then we'll have to exclude "Batman" and maybe another score.
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If I had to rank them (and include Superman):
Superman - by a wide margin. The theme alone is iconic, but the entire score is just an wonderful emotional journey that stands on its own as music. Not a single cue is skipped when I do a playlist. It's magical. Not only the best super-Hero score but one of the best scores composed in my lifetime. Very few come close.
Batman - for the impact it had on the genre more than as a score itself, but it is still my favorite of the Elfman catalog. I think it captures Batman in a way most other scores about him don't: Elfman got the darkness and heroics in one theme. I love his use of percussion. There's a raw quality to the orchestration that just works.
Batman (1966) - Nelson Riddle's score to the film version of the TV show is catchy, upbeat, exciting and fun.
X-Men: The Last Stand - John Powell's score is too damned good for the film. It's fun, catchy and operatic. One of the best in the franchise.
Avengers: Endgame - Alan Silvestri's Marvel magnum opus is exciting and emotional, bringing me chills every time.
Fantastic Four - David and Eric Wurst. Yep, I went there.
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Zorro was every bit as much a "superhero" as Batman. Only big difference was Batman rode around in a car and Zorro rode a horse. And the "Bat Signal" in the sky was no more than an update on Zorro's "Z" calling card. Both were vulnerable and human (not from some unearthly Krypton or suchlike), both wore masks, both were gymnasts and their "powers" were not superhuman. If Zorro should not be considered a "superhero" then neither should Batman.
So I'll give Alfred Newman the score award for "The Mark of Zorro".
Zorro is definitely a close predecessor of the "classic" superheroes and has a lot in common with them, like secret identity, mask, costume, signature, etc., many of the elements are in place. The main difference between Zorro and "regular" (of the kind usually referred to in this genre) superheroes is that Zorro takes place in -- and is tied to -- a historical setting, and was originally the character of a (single) pulp novel with a clear story arc and finale. (Of course, the success of that novel spawned nevertheless many sequels and spin-off tales.) Zorro is more tied to his place and time than classic comic book superheroes usually are. He is somewhere in the middle between "Robin Hood" and "Batman". :-)
Batman and his villains can take place without much change in the 30s, 40s or 2020s, whereas "Zorro" is clearly tied to the 18th century California and its political surroundings. Also, Zorro stories usually have an "ending" in which the "Zorro" character comes to an end. But no doubt he has a lot in common with BATMAN and was obviously an influence.
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Posted: |
Aug 4, 2022 - 4:34 PM
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By: |
rdj252
(Member)
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Zorro was every bit as much a "superhero" as Batman. Only big difference was Batman rode around in a car and Zorro rode a horse. And the "Bat Signal" in the sky was no more than an update on Zorro's "Z" calling card. Both were vulnerable and human (not from some unearthly Krypton or suchlike), both wore masks, both were gymnasts and their "powers" were not superhuman. If Zorro should not be considered a "superhero" then neither should Batman.
So I'll give Alfred Newman the score award for "The Mark of Zorro".
Zorro is definitely a close predecessor of the "classic" superheroes and has a lot in common with them, like secret identity, mask, costume, signature, etc., many of the elements are in place. The main difference between Zorro and "regular" (of the kind usually referred to in this genre) superheroes is that Zorro takes place in -- and is tied to -- a historical setting, and was originally the character of a (single) pulp novel with a clear story arc and finale. (Of course, the success of that novel spawned nevertheless many sequels and spin-off tales.) Zorro is more tied to his place and time than classic comic book superheroes usually are. He is somewhere in the middle between "Robin Hood" and "Batman". :-)
Batman and his villains can take place without much change in the 30s, 40s or 2020s, whereas "Zorro" is clearly tied to the 18th century California and its political surroundings. Also, Zorro stories usually have an "ending" in which the "Zorro" character comes to an end. But no doubt he has a lot in common with BATMAN and was obviously an influence.
I think the “early superheroes” (ones set pre 20th century) have always been favorites of mine. I’m talking about Robin Hood, Zorro and the Lone Ranger. A guy with close to super abilities that is my all time favorite book character is Tarzan and as a kid I loved the Lone Ranger, Zorro and Tarzan hour on TV Saturday mornings along with the Superfriends show. A big reason they’re in the superhero category for me. Robin Hood fits the bill too. Don’t care much for any movie score for the Lone Ranger except for the rescue scene Zimmer did in that last bad movie. Loved Alfred Newman’s Mark of Zorro and Horner’s Mask of Zorro. Can’t beat Korngold’s Adventures of Robin Hood and Kamen’s Prince of Thieves. I’m not familiar with any Tarzan score other than Mancina’s for the Disney movie which was fun. Still, nothing beats Superman. My previous post I missed The Incredibles and I can’t believe I’m the only one who mentioned the awesome Rocketeer.
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I'm going to this opportunity to mention two exceptional superhero-type scores done by composers taking a swing at a genre they seldom if ever touched.
Henry Mancini -- Condorman. Once you get past the trite singing of the title words, the hero theme is really good--propulsive, orchestral, and quite memorable. This, along with Lifeforce, showed that Mancini could write full-blown orchestral catchy tunes.
John Barry -- Howard the Duck. The score is varied with several nice themes, and the hero music is infectious in an upbeat, heroic way--and upbeat is an adjective not usually found in a description of the Yorkshire gentleman's music.
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