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 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 11:26 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

A trilogy in the sense we're talking about is a single developed story, rather than a series of stories or adventures. Which is better called a saga (to me, anyway).

For the original Star Wars trilogy, the essence of the adventure is Luke's hero's journey from farmboy to Jedi Knight. The middle chapter is essential in understanding how he got from "lucky shot" farmboy to dark-cloaked Jedi. So yes it's a trilogy in every sense with each movie crucial in the development of the story.

But while ST II and III are essentially about the Genesis device creating and destroying a world - and destroying and recreating Spock - ST IV is literally about saving the whales hundreds of years before in a different part of the galaxy. It could have been any episode in the Star Trek series - not something that can be said about II and III.

Fine for folks to think about it as a trilogy, but I would call it at best a "soft" trilogy vs. Star Wars as a "hard" trilogy. And a soft trilogy tends to give its creators more latitude.*

Not that there would have been anything wrong with Horner scoring IV, it would have been a great score no doubt. And no doubt I would listen to it as much as I do the others. Which is interestingly just a little less often than I listen to IV.


*I just never know when my English major analysis training will creep out. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   TruPretender   (Member)

Oh LET ME COUNT THE SCORES!

Torn Curtain (1966) - Addison did a score that just makes me nauseous. I know Hermann completed composition on a score as well - perhaps someone can fill me in on why it was rejected?

Something Wicked This Way Comes (1983) - I wish they'd have had Delerue come back and re-score the moments where it was required. Horner's music is a last minute after thought of a rip off of his earlier scores for "The Hand", "Deadly Blessing" and "Humanoids From the Deep" all of which were great scores on their own.

Poltergeist III - I've heard Goldsmith wrote a full score for the film before the budget was cut and he was never able to record it. I've also heard that his score, or at least sections of it ended up being re-purposed for his 1993 score for "Malice". Apparently the lullaby for this film was originally a new theme fore Carol Anne... How much better it would have been.

Eyes of Laura Mars (1978) - Artie Kane's score is way too bland for me. In my personal opinion the score should have been more colorful, perhaps something by Pino Donaggio, or David Shire - as Shire himself was a broadway composer to start. Kane's music is much too shrieking and offers nothing more than the mild headache. It doesn't detract from my ultimate enjoyment of the film, though. smile

Scarface (1983) - Don't get me wrong - I very much enjoy Moroder's score but I really wish Pino'd scored this one. He, being an Italian pop star, could have found the right beats as Moroder, also an Italian pop star.

Timeline (2003) - The finished film sucked, but Jerry's music, for what of it could have been used, should have been.

Trenchcoat (1983) Not that a great deal of people even know about this one, but Charles Fox's score is trite and sounds like elevator music. I wish someone like Donaggio, who had just scored "Tex", or Bernstein, who would go on to score The Black Cauldron" for Disney, had been given a shot.

Fall of the Roman Empire (1964) As much as I do love Dimitri Tiomkin, I wish Rozsa or someone more fashionable had scored the film. It might have helped the film's performance too, at least have made the film more memorable.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 11:34 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

As someone there at the time, I've gotta say that IV never felt like the third chapter of a trilogy to me.

II and III are inextricably tied together, and yes of course, IV carries on the story - especially in the early scenes on Earth and Vulcan and the final sequence. But the movie went in a very new direction, the bulk of which has nothing to do with the story set up in II and III.

So I think the new direction in music was actually a good way to say "hey this isn't part three, we're doing something different here."

It's just not a fair comparison to ROTJ - which was the third official story in the franchise. Whereas ST IV is more like the 80th!


Hey, I was gonna make that point! Why didn't you wait for me? You coulda waited....
Oh, wait, that's right, I said it was your turn next time.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 11:38 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

LOL M. Zwar!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 11:38 AM   
 By:   TruPretender   (Member)

As someone there at the time, I've gotta say that IV never felt like the third chapter of a trilogy to me.

II and III are inextricably tied together, and yes of course, IV carries on the story - especially in the early scenes on Earth and Vulcan and the final sequence. But the movie went in a very new direction, the bulk of which has nothing to do with the story set up in II and III.

So I think the new direction in music was actually a good way to say "hey this isn't part three, we're doing something different here."

It's just not a fair comparison to ROTJ - which was the third official story in the franchise. Whereas ST IV is more like the 80th!


Hey, I was gonna make that point! Why didn't you wait for me? You coulda waited....
Oh, wait, that's right, I said it was your turn next time.


I love the fanfare for ST IV but the rest of the score might've benefited being Goldsmith or Horner...

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 11:41 AM   
 By:   TacktheCobbler   (Member)

Cleopatra - Needed a more emotional score, preferably by Miklos Rosza, Alfred Newman or Dimitri Tiomkin.-

Apparently Franz Waxman was initially approached to do the score, but the constant delays in production forced him to back out. While North’s score is one of my all-time favorites, I would have liked to have heard what Waxman would have done for Cleopatra.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 11:47 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I wish Ladyhawke had a Jerry Goldsmith score. Big time.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 11:50 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I wish Ladyhawke had a Jerry Goldsmith score. Big time.

Yavar


I thank the Heavens Above that it did not.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:00 PM   
 By:   BrenKel   (Member)

Star Trek IV - James Horner (although I now enjoy the Rosenman score)
Superman II - John Williams (however I absolutely love what Ken Thorne did, but would love to have heard JW expand on his original score and create new themes)
Alien 3 - James Horner
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - James Horner

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:06 PM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

Michael J. Lewis apparently submitted a brief demo in hopes of scoring Goldeneye. Given his love of the classic Barry scores, melodic gift, and flair for action cues, I'm sorry this never happened.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:09 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Ok, I do have to agree that Superman II would have been a better film (in either the Lester or Donner versions) if Williams had been back to score it afresh and add new material.

Might have been more Jaws II than Empire Strikes Back, but that would have been good enough for me.

I remember going out of my way to skip purchasing the album though I loved the movie, so disappointed in the anemic retread. (Which, admittedly, Ken Thorne did yeoman's work with.)

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:14 PM   
 By:   Just another Goldsmith fan...   (Member)

Jerry Goldsmith for FANTASTIC VOYAGE (1966) Leonard Rosenman did a fair job. However, Goldsmith was hitting so many marks at 20th Century Fox in that period. I wonder if he ever got asked to score this movie.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:15 PM   
 By:   makro   (Member)

I would have liked Mad Max Fury Road better with some melodic / leitmotific cues. Great movie as it is but the score is lacking imho.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:16 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

ST IV was a monster hit that even won over previously ill-disposed critics. If the score were the dud that some at this place call it, no way could the picture have succeeded to the extent it did. Granted, an argument could be made that it succeeded despite the score, yet would the picture, could the picture have performed any better? I doubt it. Wish away!

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:18 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

To err is human. And the critics were in error.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:29 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

yeah esp. the ones here razz

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:38 PM   
 By:   Adam.   (Member)

Terminator 2 and True Lies.

Fiedel did a terrific job on the first Terminator film but I felt his scores for these two films were lackluster.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:43 PM   
 By:   The Shadow   (Member)

I wish Ladyhawke had a Jerry Goldsmith score. Big time.

Yavar


But Yavar, we almost have it... or sort of....it's LIONHEART !

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   The Shadow   (Member)

deleted

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2022 - 12:53 PM   
 By:   johnonymous86   (Member)

At the risk of getting excoriated, I was severely disappointed by the Zimmer/Batman scores. I understand I'm in the minority but I wanted something memorable, and the music is the least memorable thing (imo) about those films. Nolan imbued the story with plenty of emotion but the score never elicited any emotions from me. Honestly, that's a complaint I have about the majority of films Zimmer has scored...they just leave me cold and unengaged.

 
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