Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 10:32 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

And here it is again.
Someone coming in to comment on "anger" and "grouches" where there is nothing of the kind.

I wonder why anyone needs to resort to that in order to make a valid point?
A valid point does not require inventing a foe to push back against.

Pretty interesting.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 10:40 AM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

There is a particular user here who, in their typical fashion, has belittled me for my collecting habits and preferences so yes I also have first-hand seen the resentment.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 10:55 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

There is a particular user here who, in their typical fashion, has belittled me for my collecting habits and preferences so yes I also have first-hand seen the resentment.


In this thread?

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 11:24 AM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

My post which you first responded to was the very first post I created in this thread. Do you think this is the first time the conversation about vinyl collecting has been had on this website?

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

My post which you first responded to was the very first post I created in this thread. Do you think this is the first time the conversation about vinyl collecting has been had on this website?


That's all well and good, I suppose, but that wasn't my question.
Which of my posts in this thread was addressing your vinyl collecting habits and preferences?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 11:41 AM   
 By:   .   (Member)


But surely you're not suggesting that the production (or lack thereof) is not tied to demand (or lack thereof)?



Is there any suggestion that recent demand from classical music buyers has shifted significantly from CDs/lossless downloads, to LPs? I doubt it very much.
One could produce figures that show the increasing numbers of people now playing computer video games far outstrips the numbers playing Bingo. But does that mean significantly fewer older folks are now playing Bingo because of big demand for the latest video games? Those figures would be irrelevant to the Bingo players, in the same way the growing numbers of young people buying LPs is irrelevant to me and (I'd suggest) most listeners of classical/orchestral music.
I'd like to know how much the production of classical CDs has been reduced due to increasing LP demand. Of course, it's a certainty that streaming has been the cause of much-reduced classical/orchestral CD production. But LPs?

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I have absolutely no facts to back this up, but I wouldn't be too surprised if there were practically no classical vinyl being pressed anymore.
I get a sense that back in the early 80' when CD's came along, with longer playing time and greater dynamic range (both banes to vinyl cutting engineers), classical artists could not discard vinyl LP's fast enough.
Again, I have no proof of this.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 12:25 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)


That's all well and good, I suppose, but that wasn't my question.
Which of my posts in this thread was addressing your vinyl collecting habits and preferences?


You've never belittled my collecting habits or preferences. Unlike the other person I am referring to, I actually enjoy sparring and conversing with you.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 12:27 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Do they ever consider in their reports an increased decline in CD production and the increase in vinyl production?
Its like saying DVD's are outselling VHS's in 2003. Shocker!


But surely you're not suggesting that the production (or lack thereof) is not tied to demand (or lack thereof)?


Sure to some extent but its also true corporations move the market where they want it to go.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 12:31 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

I have absolutely no facts to back this up, but I wouldn't be too surprised if there were practically no classical vinyl being pressed anymore.

I actually just ordered a brand new vinyl pressing of Mahler's Symphony No. 9, recorded in 1979 with the Berliner Philharmoniker with Bernstein at the podium, based upon your query! Like I said earlier, I've been slowly building up a more personal collection of music I truly love and has impacted my life so thank you for even considering the thought you had!

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 12:53 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)


That's all well and good, I suppose, but that wasn't my question.
Which of my posts in this thread was addressing your vinyl collecting habits and preferences?


You've never belittled my collecting habits or preferences. Unlike the other person I am referring to, I actually enjoy sparring and conversing with you.



Okee-dokee.
You previously referred to this other person in the plural.
So I was just clearing up any confusion.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 1:27 PM   
 By:   John Schuermann   (Member)

There will always be the debate about sound quality difference and from those that haven't listened to vinyl since the 1980s and probably didn't take care of the media itself it makes a lot of sense for them to harbor "anger" or "resentment" over the format still existing but they do seem to negate the concept that collectors can and will collect whatever they prefer and also vinyl is still heavily used by studio musicians and DJs and other people working in the music industry. It was never going anywhere. For the sake of quality, enough can't be said of hearing the proper sound of those old analog 70s and 80s masters. If it was mixed and mastered on tape originally, I typically don't want a digital re-master. I want the original recorded sound. I want vinyl. Anything after 1988 can be a grey area, because it was probably mastered digitally, anyway. It's honestly a blessing and a luxury to be able to collect any physical media and be able to access digital content on demand in so many manners. At the end of the day, anything between vinyl, CD, digital, etc. is just an approximation of what has been recorded live and mastered by professionals who know their art better than we do. Just be happy in your pursuits and pay no heed to the grouches here! big grin

For myself, I will never begrudge anyone what format they prefer for music listening. My only issues come in when some make unsubstantiated claims about the audible superiority of one format over another, especially if they are trying to sell you something.

I do disagree with what you say above regarding how one goes about trying to recreate the original recorded sound, especially regarding 70s and 80s analog masters. As you note, those masters exist on tape originally, not on LP. And there is quite a process involved with taking those master tapes and RE-mastering them for LP. Dynamics are compressed and the RIAA curve is applied in order to try and compensate for all the limitations that are part of the vinyl format itself.

On the other hand, a high resolution digital capture of the original analog tapes *is audibly indistinguishable* from the original analog master. So if one plays the original analog master back to back with the digital capture of it, people are unable to reliably tell which is which. In the high rez capture process, every nuance of the original analog recording is captured.

So here you can correctly surmise that a high rez capture of an analpg recording is giving you exactly what you say you want - "the original recorded sound."

And the fact that no one has been able to reliably hear differences between the high rez masters and high quality CD down-samples is even more good news - a CD quality version of the high rez master is also likely to be audibly indistinguishable from the original analog master tape, or the high rez master itself .

There are other complications, as in the fact that those 70s and 80s recordings were often mastered on the pretty horrible Yamaha studio monitors that existed back on those days (the infamous Yamaha NS10M), and what you are actually hearing is mastering engineers making EQ and processing choices based on how the recordings sounded on rather bad speakers. For this reason, modern remasters using far more transparent mix chains and monitors can sound considerably BETTER than the original master tapes, analog or otherwise. After all, stereo recordings are nothing but artificially created approximations of the sound heard in the performance venue, all filtered through the mics, recording console, monitor speakers, and ultimately the recording engineer's hearing (which is often shot, due to the fact that recording engineers are often exposed to very high volume levels for extended periods of time).

None of this is meant to disparage those incredibly talented people that create some of our favorite recordings. But it's also true they are limited by the tools at their disposal (poor monitor speakers or damaged hearing).

Anyhow, enjoy your music anyway you like. Despite what I say above, there is a part of me that still misses the experience of playing an LP end to end smile



 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 1:52 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

I love your response, Mr. Schuernmann, so I wanna thank you for your cadence and your educational aspects. For the record, I love CDs. I still keep a few favorites so I can take them along for travel or let a friend borrow it. I just prefer collecting vinyl for a variety of reasons I've already made clear (plus a love of larger format album artwork and liner notes). To paraphrase Austin Powers, "CDs just aren't my bag (anymore), baby." If there is one thing I think we could all acknowledge and agree upon it is that digital distribution truly crippled the CD market and manufacturing necessity. Physical media collectors are becoming less and less though our good man Schiffy did detail his own daughter's found appreciation for the tangible aspect of interacting with and displaying your media. No doubt a DNA trait from dear old dad. wink

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 1:53 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

8-track will have it's day again... ;-)

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 1:55 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

It could happen!

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 2:48 PM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Just a cursory memory inventory...

Last time I bought a CD: Today, March 15th, 2023 (Schumann: Piano Quintets Op. 44 & 47, Emerson String Quartet)
Last time I bought a digital download: March 14th, 2023
Last time I listened directly to a CD: February 28th, 2023
Last time I listened to an entire album on a streaming service: March 14th, 2023
Last time I listened to music from my NAS: right now as I'm typing this (Jean Michel Jarre & Moby: Suns Have Gone from Electronics 1: The Time Machine is blasting through our living room this very moment)
Next to last time I listened directly to a CD: December 2017
Last time I bought an LP: April 2022
Next to last time I bought an LP: November 1987
Last time I directly listened to an LP: 2017

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 3:30 PM   
 By:   Doctor Shatterhand   (Member)

SPECTRE's plan is working. Soon everyone will be getting up from their chairs to flip the record to side 2.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 3:37 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Last time I purchased an LP? 1986 or around that time.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 4:07 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

I can't even remember the last time I put a CD into to listen to. Daily I mostly do digital. Each weekend my wife and I put on a "new" album onto the record player and catch up on household chores either on Saturday or Sunday. I have my whole home wired with speakers connected through our "hub" (AKA Sony stereo receiver) so it is cool to be able to be a homeowner and blast music in every room at the same time and just "live" in a musical environment whenever you want to. As I said earlier, there are a lot of blessings to being alive as a fan of music in this age.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2023 - 5:10 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

CDRs must be an incredibly hard-hit product.
I used to burn hundreds of CDRs not only for myself, but also for friends and neighbors.
Now I don't know ANYONE who would want a CDR or even have a machine capable of playing one.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2024 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.
Website maintained and powered by Veraprise and Matrimont.