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 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 11:05 AM   
 By:   ryanpaquet   (Member)

Speaking of the vinyl, why do you suppose it’s still not sold out? I mean, do we know if vinyl outsells CD? Anyone care to speculate about number of vinyl units Vs CD units pressed? For the mainstream collector of Indiana Jones and soundtracks in 2023, I’d have thought the vinyl would’ve gone faster.

If it wasn't done on a limited edition bullwhip, leather jacket and fedora brown colored vinyl, then I doubt mainstream collectors would be interested.

*See LLL's history of attempting to sell Black E.T. Vinyls and having to dump their stock to a Chinese reseller at a loss.

Black vinyl is the best for sound quality, but for those who collect vinyl (not me) - colored vinyl is all the rage.

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 11:12 AM   
 By:   Hedji   (Member)

Anecdotally, I posted about the CD on an Indiana Jones collector’s group and got responses that favored vinyl, as well as snarky “People still listen to CD’s?” There were some that still wanted the CD, but a lot were content with the vinyl or streaming.

Still, the LLL E.T. Vinyl is a a good counter point. I just find it odd that the CD didn’t fuel a panic to get ANY physical form and thus a vinyl sellout.

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 11:21 AM   
 By:   ryanpaquet   (Member)

Anecdotally, I posted about the CD on an Indiana Jones collector’s group and got responses that favored vinyl, as well as snarky “People still listen to CD’s?” There were some that still wanted the CD, but a lot were content with the vinyl or streaming.

Still, the LLL E.T. Vinyl is a a good counter point. I just find it odd that the CD didn’t fuel a panic to get ANY physical form and thus a vinyl sellout.


The only thing I would add to the LLL vinyl is that the original MCA LP release was so easy to find maybe folks were just happy owing that one.

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 11:23 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

MV's educated guess on FB was that Disney did 2,000 CDs and 3,000 LPs. It seems like they may have misjudged that a bit and should have swapped the numbers, but that's why the CD edition sold out in less than a month while the LP edition is still available. I think with orchestral music (classical and film) physical collectors still tend to prefer CDs, while for most other music genres LPs seem to have made a stronger comeback while CDs have phased out more in popularity. Disney probably went in with that mindset (I'll bet for animated musical soundtracks the breakdown might be more similar to the general population) which is why they misjudged.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 11:48 AM   
 By:   EdG   (Member)

MV's educated guess on FB was that Disney did 2,000 CDs and 3,000 LPs. It seems like they may have misjudged that a bit and should have swapped the numbers, but that's why the CD edition sold out in less than a month while the LP edition is still available. I think with orchestral music (classical and film) physical collectors still tend to prefer CDs, while for most other music genres LPs seem to have made a stronger comeback while CDs have phased out more in popularity. Disney probably went in with that mindset (I'll bet for animated musical soundtracks the breakdown might be more similar to the general population) which is why they misjudged.

Yavar


That sounds plausible. Past experience with song-based albums for their musicals would have been misleading - they appeal to a different demographic.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 12:08 PM   
 By:   The Shadow   (Member)

One batch of questions haunts me with this debate around the narrowing and than probable extinction of physical media:

if the big studios decide to go to streaming and digital download only once for good (for bad IMHO) for upcoming film music output (and feature films first, of course) and give up to consider any official CD and DVD/Bluray releases, will they go on, film music regarded, licensing and give any master tape access for older material as well, for expansions, reissues and so on through our favorite soundtrack labels? Or could they lock this thing?

In other words, will they do still permit their stuff to be realeased physically by any partner at all?
They indeed could decide to keep the whole stuff locked, but with no releases

What are the expectations of the soundtrack labels and managers about the issue?
What are their remaining chances to still get access to historic vintage source material if the studio's music departement go digital only?

And now what about the collector market of physical media: do these plastic things (LP, CD, LASERDISC, DVD, BLURAY, 4KHD BLURAY), we so cherish in our living room' shelves still have any value.... or would they instead increase in value because everybody would now know that they would never be reissued physically again?

The worst is still to come: download is not so bad, provided you can save it at minimum, burn it on a private physical media better, but if we straight go to streaming on-demand only with no more download option, the studios could alter the oeuvres at any moment, following any politically correctness, woke or any other sensitive issue...and modify the oeuvre with possible full betrayal of his author's intention or artistic choices. Sort of revisionism journey applied to the arts.

In this case, to maintain some physical media for archiving purposes of original material before any alteration could be a new crusade!

By the way, there are already now some vintage original stuff which slowly disappears, like the original 1977-1980-1983 STAR WARS first 3 movies in their original editing/sfx/soundtrack mix...before they were revised in the late 90ies.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 1:09 PM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

Still, the LLL E.T. Vinyl is a a good counter point. I just find it odd that the CD didn’t fuel a panic to get ANY physical form and thus a vinyl sellout.

I feel like a lot of film score collectors might be like me. If I was going to get the music in a physical form I only wanted a CD. I had no interest in an LP, because I don't want to listen to the music with pops and crackle from dirt and scratches. I grew up with LPs and have zero desire to ever go back to them again. I'll take a compressed mp3 over an LP any day, but since the score was available as a FLAC, there was no need even for that.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 1:10 PM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

MV's educated guess on FB was that Disney did 2,000 CDs and 3,000 LPs. It seems like they may have misjudged that a bit and should have swapped the numbers, but that's why the CD edition sold out in less than a month while the LP edition is still available. I think with orchestral music (classical and film) physical collectors still tend to prefer CDs, while for most other music genres LPs seem to have made a stronger comeback while CDs have phased out more in popularity. Disney probably went in with that mindset (I'll bet for animated musical soundtracks the breakdown might be more similar to the general population) which is why they misjudged.

Yavar


Yep, I agree, that sounds entirely plausible. I'll bet they're going to have LPs sitting around for a while.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 1:14 PM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

By the way, there are already now some vintage original stuff which slowly disappears, like the original 1977-1980-1983 STAR WARS first 3 movies in their original editing/sfx/soundtrack mix...before they were revised in the late 90ies.

I have the 2006 Limited Edition DVDs with the original versions of the three original Star Wars films. They're 4:3, but at least they're pretty much unaltered, as far as I know. I believe someone said they're the laserdisc masters from the 1990s.

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 1:15 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Anecdotally, I posted about the CD on an Indiana Jones collector’s group and got responses that favored vinyl, as well as snarky “People still listen to CD’s?” There were some that still wanted the CD, but a lot were content with the vinyl or streaming.


Snarky people who listen to a much shittier ancient platform. Priceless!

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 1:18 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I don't know what that means, Kev. This is a thread for discussion of the physical album and why it was so limited. That is what I am doing. I am not attacking anyone; in fact I began my last post in conciliatory fashion because I think Rameau and I were just thinking of "contemptuous" in different ways.

What does that have to do with the last thread? You think this discussion is what had multiple people hitting the "abuse" button? That thread became a shit show because of someone posting blatantly anti-LGBT statements, to say nothing of the Hitler apologia.


Yavar


Why are you carrying over that sh*t into this thread? I hope LK has a one on one talk with you.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 1:24 PM   
 By:   The Shadow   (Member)

By the way, there are already now some vintage original stuff which slowly disappears, like the original 1977-1980-1983 STAR WARS first 3 movies in their original editing/sfx/soundtrack mix...before they were revised in the late 90ies.

I have the 2006 Limited Edition DVDs with the original versions of the three original Star Wars films. They're 4:3, but at least they're pretty much unaltered, as far as I know. I believe someone said they're the laserdisc masters from the 1990s.


Yes, better to keep those: I am pretty sure they will never get any further deluxe treatement, not to speak about a 4K UHD Bluray version of course...a fortiori with Disney who wants to stop physical media production anytime soon, in Australia for the moment only allright. And when this will be STAR WARS trilogy streaming only, they will stream the revised movies versions only for sure.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 2:43 PM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

By the way, there are already now some vintage original stuff which slowly disappears, like the original 1977-1980-1983 STAR WARS first 3 movies in their original editing/sfx/soundtrack mix...before they were revised in the late 90ies.

I have the 2006 Limited Edition DVDs with the original versions of the three original Star Wars films. They're 4:3, but at least they're pretty much unaltered, as far as I know. I believe someone said they're the laserdisc masters from the 1990s.


Yes, better to keep those: I am pretty sure they will never get any further deluxe treatement, not to speak about a 4K UHD Bluray version of course...a fortiori with Disney who wants to stop physical media production anytime soon, in Australia for the moment only allright. And when this will be STAR WARS trilogy streaming only, they will stream the revised movies versions only for sure.


Yep, interest in the original, unaltered versions is pretty limited, I fear. You have to be over about 40 to even have seen the original versions in new release home video, much less in theaters, since their last home video issue was in 1995, before the 1997 Special Edition theatrical release.

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 3:22 PM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

And when this will be STAR WARS trilogy streaming only, they will stream the revised movies versions only for sure.

Yep, interest in the original, unaltered versions is pretty limited, I fear. You have to be over about 40 to even have seen the original versions in new release home video, much less in theaters, since their last home video issue was in 1995, before the 1997 Special Edition theatrical release.







Don't be silly. People that old cannot possibly exist. They'd have to be older than the World Wide Web even!

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 4:20 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Why are you carrying over that sh*t into this thread?

I was answering a post from Kev (Hurdy McGurdy) which he deleted afterwards. I was pointing out the reason that thread was shut down, and that it was not really connected to things discussed in *this* thread so far.

Why are YOU continuing this conversation if you don't want it continued? The conversation had moved on and nobody was running forward with it until YOU dug it back up. You even quoted me, so I can't even go back and delete my post as Kev did now, because you've preserved it forever. You want to delete your reply that quoted me, I'll go back now and delete my earlier post and this one. Let's see if you do it out of concern for the good of this thread, or if you really have other motives entirely...

I hope LK has a one on one talk with you.

I'm sure you do, since you unfortunately seem to generally share ibelin's political persuasion. Lukas has my email and is welcome to contact me. However, if he does I'll be taking advantage of that one on one talk to ask HIM why he and David Sones are no longer inclined to enforce his own Community Rules:
https://filmscoremonthly.com/communityrules.cfm

"The following discussion items are inappropriate on this Message Board, and will result in immediate deletion of the violating posts and possible cancellation of the offending user’s registration.

• Political/Religious Debate
• Personal Attacks
• Offensive Language, Racist or Sexist Remarks"


If there actually were a zero tolerance policy for this kind of stuff, that last thread would have gone very differently. And if they're no longer inclined to enforce their own stated rules, then they may as well delete that page so that no one holds them to their own stated standards.

As we know it takes quite a bit for Lukas to ban someone, but if he's inclined to ban *me* over a literal Hitler apologist spewing anti-LGBT hate speech out of nowhere... well, this isn't a place I *want* to be. I'll call out hate speech when I see it and I won't stop, ever. I have no doubt there are some trans film music fans reading this board, and probably posting on it. And this should be a welcoming place for all film music fans to discuss film music, not a place for people to go on unhinged anti-trans rants with zero provocation or pushback.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 4:31 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Yep, interest in the original, unaltered versions is pretty limited, I fear. You have to be over about 40 to even have seen the original versions in new release home video, much less in theaters, since their last home video issue was in 1995, before the 1997 Special Edition theatrical release.

I'm 37 and I grew up with the original Star Wars trilogy on widescreen VHS copies my grandfather had. I had enough time to fall in love with the (mostly) unaltered original versions, and then be absolutely horrified at the 1997 Special Editions.

I'm more optimistic than you and think there is still a hunger for the original unaltered films in 4K. If Disney really isn't inclined to keep producing *any* physical product after Guardians 3, then I hope they may consider sub-licensing films to the Criterion Collection and such. As long as they get a good cut of $$$ maybe they'll be willing. I'd pay a premium price for the original Star Wars trilogy on an official licensed 4K release.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 4:43 PM   
 By:   henry   (Member)

Forgive my ignorance, but will DIAL OF DESTINY not be released on 4K/Blu-ray too or could Paramount release it?

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 5:06 PM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

To my knowledge, Disney is only stopping physical releases after GOTG3 in Australia. What the future may hold, we shall see.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 5:06 PM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

Forgive my ignorance, but will DIAL OF DESTINY not be released on 4K/Blu-ray too or could Paramount release it?

Indy 5 will be released in the US on 4K UHD Blu-Ray and conventional Blu-Ray, as well as DVD, in a couple of months. Disney only shut down physical media in Australia and some of Asia.

Paramount has nothing to do with Indy 5, they just have a credit on it as a contractual thing and they collected a fee. Disney financed and produced the film and distributed it worldwide.

 
 Posted:   Aug 10, 2023 - 5:11 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Why are you carrying over that sh*t into this thread?

I was answering a post from Kev (Hurdy McGurdy) which he deleted afterwards. I was pointing out the reason that thread was shut down, and that it was not really connected to things discussed in *this* thread so far.

Why are YOU continuing this conversation if you don't want it continued? The conversation had moved on and nobody was running forward with it until YOU dug it back up. You even quoted me, so I can't even go back and delete my post as Kev did now, because you've preserved it forever. You want to delete your reply that quoted me, I'll go back now and delete my earlier post and this one. Let's see if you do it out of concern for the good of this thread, or if you really have other motives entirely...

I hope LK has a one on one talk with you.

I'm sure you do, since you unfortunately seem to generally share ibelin's political persuasion. Lukas has my email and is welcome to contact me. However, if he does I'll be taking advantage of that one on one talk to ask HIM why he and David Sones are no longer inclined to enforce his own Community Rules:
https://filmscoremonthly.com/communityrules.cfm

"The following discussion items are inappropriate on this Message Board, and will result in immediate deletion of the violating posts and possible cancellation of the offending user’s registration.

• Political/Religious Debate
• Personal Attacks
• Offensive Language, Racist or Sexist Remarks"


If there actually were a zero tolerance policy for this kind of stuff, that last thread would have gone very differently. And if they're no longer inclined to enforce their own stated rules, then they may as well delete that page so that no one holds them to their own stated standards.

As we know it takes quite a bit for Lukas to ban someone, but if he's inclined to ban *me* over a literal Hitler apologist spewing anti-LGBT hate speech out of nowhere... well, this isn't a place I *want* to be. I'll call out hate speech when I see it and I won't stop, ever. I have no doubt there are some trans film music fans reading this board, and probably posting on it. And this should be a welcoming place for all film music fans to discuss film music, not a place for people to go on unhinged anti-trans rants with zero provocation or pushback.

Yavar


All I said was you shouldn't have brought that crap into this thread and you know the mods didn't want that stuff carried over into this thread but you did it anyway. And that makes me a Hitler apologist and anti-trans? Look in the mirror.

 
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