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 Posted:   Mar 7, 2024 - 10:12 PM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

......

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 7, 2024 - 10:42 PM   
 By:   Katsoulas   (Member)

120.000 $ for 70 minutes score with small ensemble??? I don't think so...

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 7, 2024 - 11:16 PM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

....

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 7, 2024 - 11:45 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I agree with the previous posters. With that price tag, I at the very least expect complete transparency about how the costs are being broken down for this.

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 2:47 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

The Kickstarter Campaign has gone LIVE!

Please support this ambitious project.

<https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/robes/james-horners-the-hand-and-the-dresser-complete-re-recordings>

Multi thanks in advance!



I just pledged, Robin.

Excited to hear that it I going to be a double album with 140 minutes of newly recorded music.

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 3:57 AM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

We are aware it is a lot of money we are asking for, but you have to appreciate that it is almost 140 minutes of orchestral film music we are recording (IF we can fit the concert works in the schedule)

concert works? where in the kickstarter campaigne link is that stated? I only read

"James Horner's The Hand & The Dresser Complete Re-Recordings"

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 4:44 AM   
 By:   Grimsdyke   (Member)

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 5:21 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)



Perseverance though..

Heed the words of the prior poster.

Apparently not a soul remembers the Deadly Friend/Lambro Chinatown Affair awhile back...

I have the link open, hesitantly poised to contribute, but...

Perseverance though....


Dig into the history before you get excited for this folks. There's a spotty history afoot, unfortunately.


Indeed. And then there's the fact about howthere's a bunch of....unrelated videos? Supposed to show off the orchestra I guess? And the two trailers don't really do anything either. Why not give more samples of the actual music instead. Whole thing is just presented very oddly.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 5:56 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

That is quite a hefty cash goal.
Unless it already has some planned wealthy benefactors who will contribute heavily, I'm not convinced this 'quest' will find its 'glaive'.
I'm also unconvinced by its vagueness from the off, going forward.
I really want this/these (?) CDs, but I'm not completely sold at the moment.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 6:14 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

As I said -- needs total transparency. I realize it's too early to have an overview of all the specific costs, but an estimate should be possible. I want to believe this is done out of sheer goodwill, to get some rare Horners out there, but I've heard so many stories about people starting crowdfunding campaigns with exaggerated goals to fund their own pockets (there, I said what everyone was thinking, but was too afraid to say out loud!), and all of that (probably unfounded) skepticism can be debunked with some estimates. If Chris Young can get his NOSFERATU off the ground for $50.000, what is it with this project that requires more than twice that? Perhaps someone (Kim?) can answer in this thread? And yes, I know a lot of NOSFERATU was already recorded live, so it cuts some costs there as opposed to building this from ground-up. But still....$120.000!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 6:27 AM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

Cancelled my pledge pending a breakdown of costs.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 7:49 AM   
 By:   jonathan_little   (Member)

This makes it by far the most expensive KS campaign yet run by any label so far (even King of Kings was considerably cheaper and required MUCH bigger orchestra+choir).

I am assuming the King of Kings recording was not fully funded by the Kickstarter raise and that James Fitzpatrick covered the remainder. Without knowing the full budget of any of these recordings, I don't think we can compare them.

Given how these have gone in the past, I think this Kickstarter is incredibly unlikely to raise the needed amount. Maybe they already have half of it waiting in the wings somewhere? If that's the case, why funnel that money through Kickstarter in the first place? Just lower the ask like James Fitzpatrick did for King of Kings.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 7:56 AM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

I am assuming the King of Kings recording was not fully funded by the Kickstarter raise and that James Fitzpatrick covered the remainder. Without knowing the full budget of any of these recordings, I don't think we can compare them.


The total cost of Tadlow´s KING OF KINGS recording was about 80.000 British Pound (= more or less $100.000). Therfore only about half of that amount was funded by the Kickstarter raise:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/681802762/king-of-kings-new-recording?lang=de

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 7:59 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

As I said -- needs total transparency. I realize it's too early to have an overview of all the specific costs, but an estimate should be possible. I want to believe this is done out of sheer goodwill, to get some rare Horners out there, but I've heard so many stories about people starting crowdfunding campaigns with exaggerated goals to fund their own pockets (there, I said what everyone was thinking, but was too afraid to say out loud!)...

ATT: C. Kinsinger (wherever you are)
FROM: HL

The jig is up!

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 8:09 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

As I recall, King of Kings ended up costing even more than expected, so James had to foot even more than half of the bill himself. Up front with that campaign though, he made it clear that he was only asking for crowdfunding on half of it. Since he was the very first such film music Kickstarter, I think that was smart and the campaign only went a little bit over goal and probably wouldn't have made it if he had asked for the full cost of the recording.

It's worth pointing out that the Tadlow KoK campaign successfully ended in early January 2018. That was over six years ago, well before the pandemic and all the crazy inflation (greedflation?) that has happened since then. James's under-estimated £40,000 goal is the equivalent of almost £50,000 today -- a 25% increase!! So that means that, even IF KoK ended up only costing double that amount (and we know from James that it went over double), the actual cost of recording KoK back in 2018 was around £100,000, or $128,700 (USD). And THAT is actually very close to Robin's Horner campaign figure, for around 140 minutes of music (though that number is strangely not mentioned on the campaign page itself, which seems a huge oversight).

Now even The Hand is a smaller orchestra than King of Kings, for sure, to say nothing of The Dresser and whatever concert works add up to the 140 minutes (they can't all be for full orchestra, can they?) But if we are just looking at cost per length of album program, they actually seem pretty comparable. It's just strange that the two items to be recorded that are mentioned on the campaign page wouldn't even add up to 70 minutes as far as we know, much less 140. So I hope that Robin can update that main KS page to reflect EVERYTHING that is being done for that goal amount.

If Chris Young can get his NOSFERATU off the ground for $50.000, what is it with this project that requires more than twice that? Perhaps someone (Kim?) can answer in this thread? And yes, I know a lot of NOSFERATU was already recorded live, so it cuts some costs there as opposed to building this from ground-up. But still....$120.000!

You already answered your own question, Thor. I'm sure if Nosferatu was being newly recorded complete from scratch, it would cost more than $100,000. Since they are licensing the live recording and only needing to do pick-up sessions to patch mistakes, audience noise, and re-record the organ part, that's why it's comparing apples and oranges and a much lower goal.

The reason I compared this campaign with Intrada's $60,000 campaign (including the stretch goal) to record the two Herrmann scores is because that one was relatively recent (minimal inflation since then) and included one normal length score and one shorter score, which is what on its face this campaign looks like. But then Robin revealed in this thread that the $129k funding amount is to record 140 minutes (!!!) of Horner, which I had no idea about because it wasn't mentioned on the campaign page.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 8:19 AM   
 By:   scatmanjack   (Member)


Pledged...

$35 shipped

You'd all spend that much on a release from LLL/Intrada...

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

And that's why I'm in! Because I think that's a reasonable price for what you get. (I think Intrada's Herrmann twofer was $30 + shipping, in comparison.) The base price tier seems reasonable and that's more important to me in terms of pledging, than what the goal is. If the goal is reached, it's not as if I am personally being charged more money than I think is reasonable.

The goal being too high just makes it more likely that the goal won't be met, and none of us will be charged that $35, and the project won't happen. Which means we aren't burned financially, but it would still be a disappointment if this recording didn't happen. frown

So my question again is: if the campaign is primarily to record The Hand/The Dresser (as it seems from the KS page), why not set a lower goal so the project is more likely to succeed? In fact Intrada for their campaign set $50,000 as the minimum goal to do just On Dangerous Ground, with $10,000 as a stretch goal add on for The Man Who Knew Too Much to happen as well, since it was a shorter score for a much smaller orchestra. So in order to *most* ensure that *something* happens, I feel Perseverance could have set something like that $50,000 goal to record The Hand, an initial $10,000 stretch goal to reach The Dresser (that's only like a 15 minute score for a much smaller ensemble, right?) ...and then grow the campaign from there (they set it at 60 days, so more than enough time) with additional stretch goals as each one is reached! Either that or run multiple successive campaigns.

I'm just trying to understand the logic because it feels like they're shooting themselves in the foot, unnecessarily, by making as big a mountain to climb as possible even though multiple previous new film music recording Kickstarters have shown the way. (If this fails to reach its goal because it's too high, this would be the first such campaign to do so... even James Fitzpatrick's aborted Moonraker campaign reached its goal before being canceled!)

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 3:17 PM   
 By:   RobinEsterhammer   (Member)

The Kickstarter Campaign for the two Horner scores and the concert works has been updated to include more details: <https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/robes/james-horners-the-hand-and-the-dresser-complete-re-recordings?ref=user_menu>.

All the trollings on this board will not be honored with a response.

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 4:01 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I didn't notice much trolling Robin, just concerned potential backers. I for one appreciate getting more details, and perhaps other people will be more inclined to back this now too.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 4:30 PM   
 By:   pete   (Member)

Well seven previously unknown concert works is a pretty big deal! When concert pieces were mentioned earlier, I think most assumed it was the two performed at that concert a year or two ago - at least I did. To know there are these and more coming in the future if this is successful, well, wow.

Calls and Echoes of Mirrors- July 1977
Mirrors - June 1974
Pentimenti- July 1974
Dark Stories - December 1976
Spring - June 1972
Tenebrae Factae Sunt - June 1973
Voices - October 1973

And it's mentioned the two scores and concert works amount to 140 minutes of music. So it's a 2CD set?

And if no one is aware, no money changes hands if the goal is not met, so there isn't really a reason to wait and see if you're on the fence if you're OK with some of the questions asked about the large amount. Having said that, I'm just waiting for BitCoin to go a little higher!

 
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