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 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 8:39 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Yikes...people talk about the musician's union like it's a villain or something...

Well, wouldn't all you musicians make more money if Independence Day was released as an unlimited release that would sell another hundred copies every year for the next 50 years? And you all got a percentage of each CD sold?

Instead you guys only got reduced fees for 5,000 copies and that's it. How is that a better scenario for the consumer or the musician?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 8:40 AM   
 By:   Marko   (Member)



Nevermind, someone already posted the info ahead of me.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 8:54 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)


Labels do not put limits on their releases because they want to. They do them because the American Federation Of Musicians charges an insane amount of money to allow music recorded with their musicians to be released on a CD that is sold at unlimited copies. So they cut a special deal with the label to allow the music to be released at a reduced cost if the label only prints 1000, 1200, 3000, whatever they agree to copies.


Uh, yeah, I know. But if Star Trek II sold well enough for FSM that they decided to ALSO make Star Trek III unlimited, Goldsmith's original and even MORE popular score for the first Trek I think would DEFINITELY be judged to warrant an unlimited release -- it would definitely make back its money. I could see a label *maybe* limiting Goldsmith's score to Star Trek V to 5000 copies perhaps, just because the film is so disliked and the score so underrated/overlooked, but the original Star Trek: The Motion Picture? It'd be insanity to limit that to 5000 copies even. It'd be gone in a week!

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:01 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Star Trek 2 and 3 already had a OSTs that ran 45 minutes. So FSM only had to pay for the additional 20 minutes of music for each release.

Star Trek 1 already has 60 minutes of it released on the 2000 expanded edition, but there is still over 78 minutes of additional unleleased music (28 more minutes of score and 50 minutes of alternates). No way La La Land can afford the re-use fees for 78 minutes of score.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:09 AM   
 By:   Taylor Fenno   (Member)

Do either Gremlins or Ghostbusters II have enough material for 2 disc sets? Or would they be single disc?

Kind of thinking it may be Gremlins and Batman & Robin.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:15 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Do either Gremlins or Ghostbusters II have enough material for 2 disc sets? Or would they be single disc?

Kind of thinking it may be Gremlins and Batman & Robin.




Gremlins would EASILY fit on one disc, so it isn't that.

Ghostbusters 2 I have no idea, but I'd guess 1 disc, and I also don't think MV would consider it a "big" title.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   Traveling Matt   (Member)

I don't suppose one of those two-disc sets could be a Volume 2 of Batman The Animated Series? Please?

Hook or Batman & Robin would be most welcome as well!

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   foxmorty   (Member)

i certainly hope x-files makes it's schedule this time as i really am looking forward to that release. i've also convinced myself mv has alluded to scrooged so hopefully we can assume that is part of the big nov 30 batch.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   Traveling Matt   (Member)

Double post.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:31 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

I don't suppose one of those two-disc sets could be a Volume 2 of Batman The Animated Series? Please?

Hook or Batman & Robin would be most welcome as well!


While MV would love nothing more than to release Volume 2 of Batman TAS through La La Land Records, unfortunately Warner Brothers started their own label called WaterTower Records, and any future releases of TAS music would be through that.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:32 AM   
 By:   Traveling Matt   (Member)

While MV would love nothing more than to release Volume 2 of Batman TAS through La La Land Records, unfortunately Warner Brothers started their own label called WaterTower Records, and any future releases of TAS music would be through that.

Is that a definite? I seem to remember MV hoping he could still be involved.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:33 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Star Trek 2 and 3 already had a OSTs that ran 45 minutes. So FSM only had to pay for the additional 20 minutes of music for each release.

Star Trek 1 already has 60 minutes of it released on the 2000 expanded edition, but there is still over 78 minutes of additional unleleased music (28 more minutes of score and 50 minutes of alternates). No way La La Land can afford the re-use fees for 78 minutes of score.


Actually for Star Trek III you're forgetting that the film versions of Prologue/Main Title, Klingons, Stealing the Enterprise, and Returning to Vulcan were all also unreleased. If you look at the legalese on the packaging it even reflects this, treating only tracks 5, 10, 14, and 15 on disc 1 as previously released (and those are also the four shortest tracks on the original album, aside from the End Credits). So it is in fact much more than 20 additional minutes that FSM must've had to pay for (and this is assuming they got to include those four tracks duplicated on both discs at no additional charge). Also, they probably had to pay EMI more money for the original album rights than they did to Atlantic, because they had the previous relationship with Warners for Trek II but EMI (for Trek III) doesn't even usually deal with film music specialty labels -- that probably took some tricky negotiations. That Lukas was able to pull this off for a less popular score to a less popular film and *still* chose to make it unlimited speaks to Star Trek's appeal (certainly enhanced by the success of J.J. Abrams' film). Sony, unlike EMI, *has* been dealing with the specialty labels a lot, including FSM's recent release of Tootsie. If they reuse fees are expensive due to the alternate versions of several cues (again, simply a more extreme example of what FSM dealt with handily on Star Trek III), I think this could be easily offset but a slightly higher price (say, $29.95 for a two disc set with no redundant material unlike III) and by the fact that Goldsmith's Star Trek: The Motion Picture in complete form will almost certainly outsell any other Star Trek score in complete form.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:33 AM   
 By:   bdm   (Member)

I don't think two discs would do TMP justice - you would need 3 discs for the complete score and all the alternate cues.

And don't slam the Musicians' Union - we all want our composers to get their fair due, well what about all the artists who play it and without whose work we couldn't listen to it?

Composers get royalties, actors, writers, directors, and - yes - musicians; don't slam an organisation that works to protect their rights and royalties.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   Taylor Fenno   (Member)

Thanks for the heads up Jay. I don't know much about Gremlins or GB II.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:38 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

I don't think two discs would do TMP justice - you would need 3 discs for the complete score and all the alternate cues.


Wrong. The complete score is 88:21. Then there are 50:32 of alternates, for a total of 138:44. Just short enough to fit on two discs!

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

And don't slam the Musicians' Union - we all want our composers to get their fair due, well what about all the artists who play it and without whose work we couldn't listen to it?

Composers get royalties, actors, writers, directors, and - yes - musicians; don't slam an organisation that works to protect their rights and royalties.





I'm not slamming them. They are great, and deserve to be paid. I don't think re-use fees shouldn't exist. I think they are too high. They are so high that almost NO expanded scores get to be released at unlimited units. They are all released at 3,000 or 5,000 units that sell out within the first year, and then they go out of print. No more money going to the musicians after that point.

If the fees were lower, the scores could be sold for years and years, bringing in a steady stream of revenue to the musicians, and allowing us fans to buy the scores we love and are newly discovering at normal prices. Instead, they go OOP after a year and we have to pay large money to get the scores on ebay if we weren't into the score when it was first released.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

double post, delete me.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   bdm   (Member)

Well, scores are a limited arena, so unlimited releases of older scores are - for the most part - untenable financially (both for production and warehousing costs).

As for your TMP times - the recording session copy I have (a very kind gift from someone who was there and who made it very clear that any copies I made would cost me very precious parts of my anatomy) says your a few cues short on your count- you would need 3 for everything; two would be full, and the third about half, and that would give you everything, including the Captain Logs, etc.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 10:22 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Well, scores are a limited arena, so unlimited releases of older scores are - for the most part - untenable financially (both for production and warehousing costs).

As for your TMP times - the recording session copy I have (a very kind gift from someone who was there and who made it very clear that any copies I made would cost me very precious parts of my anatomy) says your a few cues short on your count- you would need 3 for everything; two would be full, and the third about half, and that would give you everything, including the Captain Logs, etc.



The 88 minutes includes the captain's log stuff. There are 50 minutes of alternates. Are you sure you're not including the pointless 28 minutes "suite" tacked onto the end of some boots?

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Maleficio   (Member)

I don't think two discs would do TMP justice - you would need 3 discs for the complete score and all the alternate cues.


Wrong. The complete score is 88:21. Then there are 50:32 of alternates, for a total of 138:44. Just short enough to fit on two discs!


But do we need the alternate cues? There were no alternate cues on the FSM Star Treks.

 
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