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 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 5:38 AM   
 By:   Mark Langdon   (Member)

Is now a good time to ask for the wind machine to be re-instated on Star Trek: The Motion Picture or the synth mix to be corrected on Innerspace? :-)

I seem to recall the wind machine was reduced as Goldsmith, on reflection, didn't like it (and that's why that part of the score wasn't included on the 20th Anniversary edition), so you can't argue for the mixing bowls being reinstated on THE CHALLENGE as it was Goldsmith's intent and also argue for something Goldsmith didn't like to be reinstated. razz

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 5:38 AM   
 By:   mrchriswell   (Member)

The cult of Jerry strikes, it's powers undiminished! Hail, Jerry!

No wonder he was creeped out by his fans.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 6:25 AM   
 By:   That Bloke   (Member)

Not to be outdone, Kritzerland is pushing up the release of its next CD - Great Movie Themes for Solo Mixing Bowls. Wait till you hear Tara's Theme - it will knock your socks off - of course, then you won't have any socks, but that's another story.

Frankly m'dear I don't give a bowl big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 6:28 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

I seem to recall the wind machine was reduced as Goldsmith, on reflection, didn't like it (and that's why that part of the score wasn't included on the 20th Anniversary edition), so you can't argue for the mixing bowls being reinstated on THE CHALLENGE as it was Goldsmith's intent and also argue for something Goldsmith didn't like to be reinstated. razz

That's just nip-picking! ;-)

I would say that Goldsmith's dislike of the wind machine was retrospective and thus, to preserve his intent in 1979, should be included (and I'm sticking to it! LOL)

That cue just isn't right without that wind effect over the dust being blown off V'Ger.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 6:29 AM   
 By:   spanosdm   (Member)

A very classy move from LLL indeed. They ARE listening to the customers! Like others have said, I was about to keep my Prometheus but now I am buying the new release.
MV, you rule!!!

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 8:38 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

I too have decided that a move of this kind should be supported, and so even though I only bought the old Prometheus release just a few months ago, I will order the new La La Land release -- in a month.

Thank you, La La Land Records.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   Beast7279   (Member)

Is now a good time to ask for the wind machine to be re-instated on Star Trek: The Motion Picture or the synth mix to be corrected on Innerspace? :-)

I seem to recall the wind machine was reduced as Goldsmith, on reflection, didn't like it (and that's why that part of the score wasn't included on the 20th Anniversary edition), so you can't argue for the mixing bowls being reinstated on THE CHALLENGE as it was Goldsmith's intent and also argue for something Goldsmith didn't like to be reinstated. razz


Many artists, especially film directors, dislike viewing or hearing their work on reflection as they are rarely happy with anything that seems arty, artificial or pretentious.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Is now a good time to ask for the wind machine to be re-instated on Star Trek: The Motion Picture or the synth mix to be corrected on Innerspace? :-)

I really want that wind machine cue re-instated as it was heard in the film. Should I start a new bitch fest thread of my own? Nah, that requires to much effort!

There's an old saying. "The squeaky wheel gets greased first" razz

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 12:12 PM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

LaLaLand re-released CHALLENGE omitting takes/mixes that were on the Prometheus CD because Goldsmith wanted them that way. There is a term for releasing stuff against the wishes of the composer.

And what is that term?

Not for anything, but the artist is almost always the worst judge of the work.

BTW, if labels really stuck with the strict intent of "the composer," in this case Mr. Goldsmith, most of these releases and expansions would never happen. According to interviews, Goldsmith never wanted his complete scores released and certainly didn't want the market flooded with his scores (he would have hated the TMP release). As someone who enjoys his work, would you like it if the labels stuck strictly to his wishes and refrained from "releasing stuff against the wishes of the composer?" Because, you wouldn't wind up with much at all from the Goldsmith back catalog.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 12:13 PM   
 By:   Charlie Chan   (Member)

Hi folks

This is not a score or movie that I know nothing about - and as such was not going to buy the CD. However, firstly, as the score features Tibetan Singing Bowls that makes a big difference. Tibetan singing bowls sound awesome! If you haven't heard one being 'played' live I would recommend you do so as soon as possible. They are obviously powerful otherwise why all this fuss! Secondly, this is such a generous offer from La-La Land Records that it needs to be supported.

Regards

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 12:44 PM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

If any proof were needed that a composers' wishes are ignored upon their demise, just imagine what Mr Goldsmith would have said upon hearing he was sharing disc space with James Horner on the Homecoming/Rascals & Robbers CD!!
I know, too many expletives!!! smile

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 1:08 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Gee. I've heard of the tail that wags the dog, but seeing really is believing.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 1:08 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Congratulation to LaLaLand!

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 4:10 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

If any proof were needed that a composers' wishes are ignored upon their demise, just imagine what Mr Goldsmith would have said upon hearing he was sharing disc space with James Horner on the Homecoming/Rascals & Robbers CD!!
I know, too many expletives!!! smile


So true!

It's well known that Goldsmith didn't want the Steiner cues on his original album or extension of ST:TMP. The inclusion of the wind machine would, I suspect, have been the least of his concerns with the 3-discer.

I doubt he'd have approved of an album for Gladiator either, but it didn't stop Botnick producing one.

Some of these "decisions" to randomly push things down in the mix are very strange.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 4:41 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Spymaters:
It's well known that Goldsmith didn't want the Steiner cues on his original album or extension of ST:TMP. The inclusion of the wind machine would, I suspect, have been the least of his concerns with the 3-discer.


Is this really correct? Bill Wrobel runs a wonderful site where he examines sheet music from donations to places, and vaults. He has an extensive page on ST:TMP:
http://www.filmscorerundowns.net/goldsmith/startrek.pdf

According to his list, the following cues from the original presentation, were by (written or adapted) Steiner:
"End Titles"

And on the extended one, the following are his written/adapted efforts:
"Vejur Speaks"
"A Good Start"
"End Title"
(assuming some cues were not re-titled for the expansion)

The following cues, according to Wrobel's site, were Steiner efforts:
"Goodbye Klingons"
"Goodbye Epsilon Nine"
"Pre-Launch Countdown"?(revised version)
"Warp Point Eight"
"Warp Point Nine"
"Meet Vejur"
"System Inoperative"
"Hidden Information"
"Vejur Speaks"
"A Good Start"
"End Title"

(What's with all this "Vejur"? It was "Voyager", covered up with "space dust", so leaving out the letters, it should be "V'ger")

And the Alexander Courage efforts were four cues.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2013 - 5:02 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

It's well known that Goldsmith didn't want the Steiner cues on his original album or extension of ST:TMP. The inclusion of the wind machine would, I suspect, have been the least of his concerns with the 3-discer.


I would say that's a popular assumption on the part of fans who don't really actually know.

I'd rather hear it from Goldsmith himself (via some old interview/article) or from someone who worked with him on various releases, like Mike M., before "spreading it around" that "Goldsmith didn't want the Steiner cues on his original album."

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 6, 2013 - 3:02 AM   
 By:   JB Fan   (Member)

The cult of Jerry strikes, it's powers undiminished! Hail, Jerry!

No wonder he was creeped out by his fans.


Yes, I can't imagine same situation with other composers.
For instance, - Intrada recall Wrong Box CDs, cause they have mono-tapes with complete score and fans heavily asked them that they want complete score, not just 2 suites with missing music. Can you just imagine it? I can't... (((
And yes - I'm not just Barry fan - my Jerry's collection is rather nice too (for my taste, of course) - 16 or so scores, not counting Star Treks.

 
 Posted:   Apr 6, 2013 - 4:41 AM   
 By:   Wedge   (Member)

(What's with all this "Vejur"? It was "Voyager", covered up with "space dust", so leaving out the letters, it should be "V'ger")

Certain merchandizing, such as the novelization and the original soundtrack LP (although NOT the Marvel Comics adaptation) used the alternate spelling "Vejur." Presumably, the intention was to help preserve the surprise of the big "Voyager" reveal. The film's screenplay and the orchestrated score manuscripts use "V'Ger." (I'm not sure what was chosen for the cue sheets, but Jeff Bond's MUSIC OF STAR TREK book has "Vejur.") Since LLL replicated the original album program as part of their 3-disc edition, they used its track titles for that portion of the set, while keeping Goldsmith's original cue titles for the rest of it.

 
 Posted:   Apr 6, 2013 - 1:36 PM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

The funny thing for me is that if it wasn't pointed out, I never would have known the instruments were missing from the cues. They are still perfectly good pieces of music and now that I've heard both versions, I can't say it seriously damages the cue on way or another. It's still a damned fine score.

Ah well....

 
 Posted:   Apr 7, 2013 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

How come no one has ever raised a stink over "The Searchers" cue on Varese Sarabande's PLANET OF THE APES release not being the same mix or take or whatever that's heard in the movie? I mentioned it way back when FSM was just a magazine, but I've never come across any comment on it since. Is there no one that cares? I think it's a good case for why that 1997 CD needs a remastering.

 
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