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Speaking as a former Service Management professional, I concur.
Customers don't necessarily mind problems or delays. What they mind is not being communicated with. People just want to know what's going on and what they can expect next.
Including why the £171,000 raised is no longer enough to print the in colour. (See Nick's sums.)
Cheers
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Speaking as a former Service Management professional, I concur.
Customers don't necessarily mind problems or delays. What they mind is not being communicated with. People just want to know what's going on and what they can expect next.
Including why the £171,000 raised is no longer enough to print the in colour. (See Nick's sums.)
Cheers
I'm not even in the business and just randomly asked a few book/printing manufacturers what it would cost... and I always took the "make it big" option (color printing, deluxe, hardcover, bound, good paper, etc.... so the "go for it" version, "deluxe it" wherever you can... so the most expensive option to print)... and I got offers from 40k to 60K... for 2x3000=6000 units, 800 pages each... superbly crafted and printed. And that's just me casually asking a few book printing companies. That's for a third of the money they took in and for higher quality print (and in color) than was promised. And it also already includes an edition large enough to get one to every single Kickstarter backer plus the same amount to stores. Make some of those volumes black and white and softcover etc, and print less for the stores, the sum would go down considerably of course, but I just wanted to max it out.
But the Kickstarter campaign took in 800% more than what was originally needed, so LOTS of additional funding is there for the project. That is way more money than the production of many commercially produced coffee table books cost... and this one was allegedly already almost done.
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Posted: |
Jul 19, 2024 - 8:50 AM
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By: |
LRobHubbard
(Member)
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Creature Features....
Hmmm.....
Might wanna follow the money. Perhaps some shadyness involved here.
And to think, we all "persecuted" Esterhamner....
I, like others, saw Goldsmith, and went pie-eyed, wanting this to succeed.
Bond's involvement negated suspicion, because....we all love Jeff, right? He wouldn't hook up with a Flim Flam Man, right?
I don't detect the pushy, annoying, condescending cheerleader here, scolding us we're wrong to be concerned. Interesting.
Happy to see others await the physical copies as I am, but I'm wondering where this all is heading.
Creature Features no longer has a storefront, correct? That operation has been fairly quiet until this Kickstarter, correct me if wrong?
Fishy the size of Bruce (shark, not Kritzer, so we're clear!!), this.
Can one withdraw their pledge from Kickstarter? Considering that, if an option. Or, report everything happening now to that platform?
Apparently, not a lot of people here on the board went on their previous Kickstarters, which were for the NIGHT GALLERY books. So no, the "operation was not fairly quiet" until the Goldsmith Kickstarter.
You people are treating this like they're fly-by-night grifters and that this is their first time doing anything like this. When that is anything but far from the case.
It would be great to hear something from someone who has ACTUAL knowledge of the current state of book publishing - so far, it's just the usual speculation, accusations, conjecture that is par the course for 'experts' here on the boards.
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Perhaps it just comes across as if it's their first time doing anything like this.
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It would be great to hear something from someone who has ACTUAL knowledge of the current state of book publishing - so far, it's just the usual speculation, accusations, conjecture that is par the course for 'experts' here on the boards.
I think the reason these speculations start in the first place is precisely because there is a decided lack of communication in this Kickstarter campaign. I think we would all welcome to hear from someone with inside knowledge here. Not only did they take in WAY more money than what was their original estimate of what was needed, they then delayed the release, and finally delayed communication. And when they communicate, is is rather vague. It isn't exactly rocket science to get figures and time schedules for book printing, there are companies out there who do stuff like that, you can just ask them for figures. That stuff isn't exactly secret insider knowledge. (Not to mention I would suspect insiders with secret knowledge would get better prices.)
There was mention of a profit margin for JB and the publisher to take from the project. I don’t think I begrudge them that considering the time and effort put in but wonder if this is reducing the monies for the printing. It will be sad if this doesn’t look as good as the mock ups.
Fully agreed. There is nothing wrong with making a profit, and there is no reason there shouldn't be an even greater than expected profit in there somewhere when they originally aimed for 20,000$ and received 171,000$.
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Bond's involvement negated suspicion, because....we all love Jeff, right? He wouldn't hook up with a Flim Flam Man, right?
I don't detect the pushy, annoying, condescending cheerleader here, scolding us we're wrong to be concerned. Interesting.
I sense I'm being called out... please correct me if I'm wrong and you're referring to someone else.
I certainly wasn't trying to be condescending or a scold, with my comments. I was trying to be helpful and check in with Taylor for folks getting concerned. I was able to message him and ask a question to give a minor update to folks in this thread, but I don't know Taylor personally and I am not involved in this campaign. Certainly much less involved even than Jeff, after he delivered the book text to Taylor and got paid! My inside knowledge is very minimal.
The extent of my investment in and connection to this is pro-bono proofreading and fact-checking for the opening few chapters of the book (through 1961), which I did as a favor to my friend Jeff (who wrote most of those chapters based on rare, commercially unreleased audio and video material which The Goldsmith Odyssey mainly provided to him). I spent rather a long while working on that, and was told I would get written thanks and a complimentary hardcover copy of the book for my trouble. I'm not a "cheerleader"; I just wanted the book to be as good as it could be and had an area of expertise where I could help out. Just like everyone else here in this thread, I want the final product to be as nice as possible. I may have only chipped in a small amount to the actual Kickstarter, but I donated quite a few days of my life helping Jeff out on the early chapters (worth a whole lot more than a couple hundred dollars) so I'll be at least as disappointed as any of you if Creature Features fails to deliver.
As LRonHubbard pointed out, Creature Features hasn't failed to deliver on several past Kickstarters for high end books including the Night Gallery one. (I didn't participate in any of those myself, but I've seen good feedback about the final product elsewhere.) So for now I'm going to try to be optimistic that Taylor will overcome whatever obstacles have arisen with the project since September of last year. His most recent update indicates the need for a project manager on this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nightgalleryart/the-jerry-goldsmith-companion/posts/4151560
"We’re also looking to hire a new project manager to assist in this final stage of production. Applicants must be located in the Los Angeles area and have experience with Kickstarter and Amazon fulfillment, plus shipping services like USPS, are essential. Email your credentials to ATTENTION: LUCY at cfeatures@me.com if interested."
So... anyone currently living in L.A. want to step forward? I think it's possible that position has been vacant since Joe Sikoryak moved on after this update back on October 9th. (All updates afterwards have been Taylor White himself, and of course he's juggling this while also running Creature Features so hence the apparent need for a project manager):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nightgalleryart/the-jerry-goldsmith-companion/posts/3929150
Maybe if someone takes on that paid role, things will move a little faster.
Oh! I just remembered one positive at least about this being done by Amazon rather than a traditional printing press (which I fully admit, might be more nice/deluxe). I shared the posts made above with Taylor about some submitted corrections not being executed, in the hopes that it might not be too late. Taylor replied with, "It's print-on-demand, so anything can be fixed at any time." So I realize the quality concerns (and also I just hate how Amazon has taken over so many ecosystems as a company) but that's an encouraging benefit of this approach, at least. With such a lengthy and complex book, there are bound to be more little mistakes that turn up, and this way they can be corrected more easily.
Yavar
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But isn't it a curiosity to raise 171,000$ for an Amazon Print on Demand book, where the entire idea is to have low overhead, since costs arise only when someone actually orders a book?
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Why wasn't there a cap to the KickStarter? Nearly nine times the required amount was amassed. What is the extra cash required for? Seems odd.
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Because Kickstarters don’t have caps, as far as I know? What would a cap even mean? After a certain amount is raised, even before the 30 days are up, nobody can pledge any more? Would you end a Kickstarter after a certain amount is pledged, rather than after a certain length of time has passed? What would your suggestion look like, in practice?
But isn't it a curiosity to raise 171,000$ for an Amazon Print on Demand book, where the entire idea is to have low overhead, since costs arise only when someone actually orders a book?
To be honest I don’t know how Amazon Print-on-Demand works. But yeah, with that important caveat that I don’t actually know anything about the book publishing/printing business, $171,000 seems like a lot of money that I would think could cover a lot of costs, even for a two volume book as long as this. Maybe something unexpected happened in the past year that I/we don’t know about. That’s why I agree more regular communication would be beneficial all around, both for backers and producer. I’m not going to keep bugging Taylor and I don’t want to speak for him, but I’ll be surprised if he’s not working on another update (just for backers this time) with an updated link.
Yavar
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Because Kickstarters don’t have caps, as far as I know? What would a cap even mean? After a certain amount is raised, even before the 30 days are up, nobody can pledge any more? Would you end a Kickstarter after a certain amount is pledged, rather than after a certain length of time has passed? What would your suggestion look like, in practice?
Because, to use your word, shouldn't the objectives be clear? Shouldn't the allocations of ressources be made clear up front? I have no opinion about this specific KickStarter campaign or the people running it, but I'm a bit confused, hence the questions. Moreover, one should be able to ask legit questions without being somehow condescended to, no offense.
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I think a lot of tone can be misunderstood on the internet, so I apologize — I wasn’t trying to be condescending or hostile towards you in any way. I was honestly asking what a “Kickstarter cap” would look like, because I’ve never heard any such idea proposed before. Kickstarter campaigns have a minimum amount required for the funding to go through, but there’s never been a maximum as far as I know, because that would mean potentially preventing people from participating who might want to participate, before the time limit of the campaign has passed. Of course now with the recent Intrada campaign, we see that Kickstarter has even begun to allow people to participate as “Late Backers” after that time limit has passed.
Yavar
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Let's just get one thing straight: It is not Jeff Bond's job to post about his book in this thread. He would be a fool to do so. He's the AUTHOR of the book, not the publisher. It's not his job to give updates or any other information. His job was to write the book and he did so and did a wonderful job from what I've read thus far.
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Let's just get one thing straight: It is not Jeff Bond's job to post about his book in this thread. He would be a fool to do so. He's the AUTHOR of the book, not the publisher. It's not his job to give updates or any other information. His job was to write the book and he did so and did a wonderful job from what I've read thus far.
Amen! I second this!
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Thanks for that, Bruce — spot on. Printing/publishing the book for backers is the responsibility of Creature Features alone at this point, and it looks like Taylor is actively seeking out a new staff member to assist on this.
Yavar
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Why wasn't there a cap to the KickStarter? Nearly nine times the required amount was amassed. What is the extra cash required for? Seems odd.
There is no reason for a cap. Kickstarter campaigns are not "orders" or "deals", they are based on trust. There are people who want to go out and do something, and they may need funds, and they explain to you what they need and how much they need and why they need it, and maybe they find people backing them, for rewards that are promised but may never appear.
It's basically a small scale version of what real investors do, or what you can see on "Dragon's Den/Shark's Tank".
Somebody lays out what they do and perhaps what they promise (no need to promise anything), and what they need "at least" to receive the goal, and then they look for supporters. Many Kickstarter campaigns fail, some get way more money than they ever asked for. It's like in real life. :-)
It's a great platform. It's a gamble, sure, there are no guarantees, and if you want guarantees, well, don't go for Kickstarter's, because obviously it is NOT retail (where you can actually buy or order a product).
So far, the Kickstarter campaigns I have actually financially supported have all delivered and made true on their promises.
I'm still in good spirit and have hopes for this campaign to do likewise. But that doesn't mean inquiries about the use of the money aren't warranted at this stage.
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At the risk of being labeled a cheerleader I’ll say: good answer to A&C’s inquiry, Nicolai. Much better than my answering a question with another question. (D’oh!)
Yavar
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