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Traditionally (i.e. from around Haydn's time up to the late 19th century), both concerti and symphonies follow the same form, with the minor difference of converti often being in what's called "double exposition" form as opposed to sonata form....but both tended to be about the same otherwise, with one MAJOR exception -- symphonies tended to have four movements, including the minuet and then later scherzo or other dance movement that concerti lacked. That is indeed the main difference. Of course, as has been pointed out, it is not all cut and dry. There are three movement symphonies and four movement concerti, there are short symphonies and concertos that are much longer, and there are symphonies for comparatively smaller orchestras and concerti that call for huge orchestras. But on the whole, concerti tend to have three movements (a dramatic one (the first), a lyrical one (second), and a boisterous one (finale) ), whereas a symphonies tend to have four movements (same order, same type of movements, but with a scherzo/minuet/whatever movement that is usually not part of a concerto). The final movement (of both concerti and symphonies) is often (though not always) a Rondo. I'd be very interested to hear Elfman's Violin Concerto, alas, so far, it has not been released on CD? Pity.
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Traditionally (i.e. from around Haydn's time up to the late 19th century), both concerti and symphonies follow the same form, with the minor difference of converti often being in what's called "double exposition" form as opposed to sonata form....but both tended to be about the same otherwise, with one MAJOR exception -- symphonies tended to have four movements, including the minuet and then later scherzo or other dance movement that concerti lacked. That is indeed the main difference. Of course, as has been pointed out, it is not all cut and dry. There are three movement symphonies and four movement concerti, there are short symphonies and concertos that are much longer, and there are symphonies for comparatively smaller orchestras and concerti that call for huge orchestras. But on the whole, concerti tend to have three movements (a dramatic one (the first), a lyrical one (second), and a boisterous one (finale) ), whereas a symphonies tend to have four movements (same order, same type of movements, but with a scherzo/minuet/whatever movement that is usually not part of a concerto). The final movement (of both concerti and symphonies) is often (though not always) a Rondo. I'd be very interested to hear Elfman's Violin Concerto, alas, so far, it has not been released on CD? Pity. Listen to the YouTube video of the performance! It's pretty Public Access, but it's official.
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Can’t wait to get it! What’s the release date?
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Jesus, this awesome cover art looks like Sandy Cameron is firing a weapon. All we needed was Elfman in the mid/upper right firing ninja stars shaped like musical notes.
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Two questions: why a concerto over 40 minutes? I know he had “never heard a violin concerto” in his life..but there is little chance this concert will be embraced by orchestras because Concertos are meant to be 20-25 minutes to fit in the concerto slot of a program. Concertos should never be long. They are by definition show pieces. Fun and pyrotechnics. Question two: how many “orchestrators” were involved in this? It shouldn’t t matter, but if you are dipping your feet into the world of concert music, you need to ask yourself how many orchestrators did Shostakovich, Beethoven, Tchaikovksy, Mendelssohn, Stravinsky and all the other composers of the great Concertos use? The combined total is zero. I don't know how many orchestrators he used when writing this concerto. Maybe one (S. Bartek) or none at all? Goldenthal, for instance, had used Bobby E (his trusty orchestrateur) on Othello and his opera Grendel. No big deal.
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Two questions: why a concerto over 40 minutes? I know he had “never heard a violin concerto” in his life..but there is little chance this concert will be embraced by orchestras because Concertos are meant to be 20-25 minutes to fit in the concerto slot of a program. Concertos should never be long. They are by definition show pieces. Fun and pyrotechnics. Question two: how many “orchestrators” were involved in this? It shouldn’t t matter, but if you are dipping your feet into the world of concert music, you need to ask yourself how many orchestrators did Shostakovich, Beethoven, Tchaikovksy, Mendelssohn, Stravinsky and all the other composers of the great Concertos use? The combined total is zero. Weren’t some of the most famous concert works by Gershwin, Mussorgsky, and Liszt all orchestrated by or in conjunction with others? They were hardly slouches. Just sayin’.
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Posted: |
Feb 3, 2019 - 6:44 PM
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By: |
TerraEpon
(Member)
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Weren’t some of the most famous concert works by Gershwin, Mussorgsky, and Liszt all orchestrated by or in conjunction with others? They were hardly slouches. Just sayin’. In Mussorgsky's case, Ravel's version is from almost 50 years later, which hardly counts. And Ravel's version is just one of a LOT of other versions. Liszt DID have help with his symphonic poems from Joachim Raff, though the 'final' versions were pretty much all Liszt. Most of his music with orchestra is all his. Gershwin orchestrated most of his orchestral concert music, though Rhapsody in Blue was orchestrated by Ferde Grofe, full stop (multiple times, evev). It was actually the success of this that led Gershwin to learn how to do it himself. Of course his musicals were orchestrated by others -- musicals, like film music, this is completely normal. Though I've brought up before the cases of for instance Debussy who did in fact have others help him with orchestration on some works (not because he wasn't capable, obviously, but other factors). There have been other cases as well, but most of the type an "orchestrated by" credit in classical music is an after the fact thing, as it were.
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Amazon.ca has a June release date.
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