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 Posted:   Feb 12, 2019 - 6:01 PM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

I am agreed with you Wedge but I can't imagine a such volume increase (6dB !!) does not affect the music during the mastering. I personally try to increase the volume of the MCA tracks and the low parts were still lower than the Intrada tracks, so the dynamic range is probably not exactly the same than the original album. But yes my friend, it's not the worst case in the history of film music mastering ;o)

Yes, there's probably no need to master at such a high volume.

Even if the dynamic range "appears" untouched, that doesn't mean it will sound better.

There are so many factors, some which are unknown.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 12, 2019 - 6:12 PM   
 By:   townerbarry   (Member)

Why a such volume increase on this new Intrada edition : around 6 dB more than the original MCA edition ?
I am agreed with Nono about about hot mastering or volume increase that reduce the musicality of the recordings. I don't think Maestro James Horner would be ok with this new mastering... Please keep the music alive and stop over master and mix our beloved scores...

Original MCA :



New INTRADA :



https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=134296&forumID=1&archive=0



You have truly Gone where no man has gone before.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 12, 2019 - 6:49 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)


That waveform looks perfectly fine to me. Lovely dynamic range! The MCA CD sounds old and dated now.
.


Indeed, I can't see how anyone could complain about this....hell the range is probably better in the new one (the samples sound great to me, but I never had the old one. Assuming it's similar to The Land Before Time, which is also quite quiet, I very much welcome the change)


And wanting the songs without the singing? That's not how they were conceived. If you bought a pop album would you also expect instrumental versions of each song?

This board is mad sometimes.


Yeah, you wouldn't want Indiana Jones without a trumpet would you? Though oddly no one seems to have noticed there IS an "intrumental" track on the new release, though according the review it's an actual instrumental version with the voices replaced by an electric guitar, not a dumb karaoke version that makes me cringe.

 
 Posted:   Feb 12, 2019 - 7:36 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

Anyone who has listened to the recent Intrada versions of Horner scores would know that they have done a great job and have not compressed things or hidden details. Quite the opposite, they have brought out details in most of the scores in a way that sounds incredible in each instance. If you haven't, pick up the recent releases of Batteries Not Included, Balto, and Apollo 13 before complaining about the increase in volume.

This same increase in volume is likely to happen if we ever see an expansion of Legends of the Fall. As Wedge has said, it is a way of correcting the overly quiet mastering of the time. It may not seem like much but one should be able to play multiple scores in a row without having to shift the volume considerably.

As for the tracks without vocals, I don't really mind either way. I get that they are songs and I will likely delete the tracks from my rip or skip them every time because I can't stand the interruption that vocals bring to an otherwise fully instrumental experience. I am not familiar enough with the score to know if I would be missing out on thematic material by doing so, thus the preference for instrumental versions. So I'm glad to see that at least the one that is thematically relevant has an instrumental version as was pointed out. And I agree the choice to use guitar to replace the vocals is preferred to just removing vocals. It isn't the same otherwise. Glad I can swap things around and make the instrumental the final track.

 
 Posted:   Feb 12, 2019 - 7:54 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

HI SCHIFFY!!!

Hi! Whassup?!


I was right, so...where shall I mail this fine crow for your consumption to???

Just funning you, your ok :-D


I'm happy to be the butt of anybody's joke...!



Don't tempt me Schiff.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2019 - 1:48 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Yeah, you wouldn't want Indiana Jones without a trumpet would you? Though oddly no one seems to have noticed there IS an "intrumental" track on the new release, though according the review it's an actual instrumental version with the voices replaced by an electric guitar, not a dumb karaoke version that makes me cringe.

That's an excellent point. If you strip out the vocals you need something to replace them - to carry the melody. If that layer wasn't recorded at the time then you're looking at either a karaoke version or a partial new recording and mix.

Personally I love the way the songs grow seamlessly out of the score.

Just accept that it's music for a kid's animated movie.

 
 Posted:   Feb 14, 2019 - 5:11 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

Mine arrived today, bought it super quick. I really enjoy this score. I also find this is one where I need to arrange a few songs towards the end at least on first listen. I would have preferred if the instrumental version of Somewhere Out There was the orchestral not the pop version but what can you do? With all the songs and Warren T Rat track moved to the end it is almost perfect.
The one part that will forever drive me nuts is how Releasing the Secret Weapon ends with a short reprise of There are No Cats in America and some Chinese style music.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 14, 2019 - 5:16 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Mine arrived today, bought it super quick. I really enjoy this score. I also find this is one where I need to arrange a few songs towards the end at least on first listen. I would have preferred if the instrumental version of Somewhere Out There was the orchestral not the pop version but what can you do? With all the songs and Warren T Rat track moved to the end it is almost perfect.
The one part that will forever drive me nuts is how Releasing the Secret Weapon ends with a short reprise of There are No Cats in America and some Chinese style music.


Damn the movie for dictating what direction the score should take!

 
 Posted:   Feb 14, 2019 - 10:56 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Mine arrived today, bought it super quick. I really enjoy this score. I also find this is one where I need to arrange a few songs towards the end at least on first listen. I would have preferred if the instrumental version of Somewhere Out There was the orchestral not the pop version but what can you do? With all the songs and Warren T Rat track moved to the end it is almost perfect.
The one part that will forever drive me nuts is how Releasing the Secret Weapon ends with a short reprise of There are No Cats in America and some Chinese style music.


Damn the movie for dictating what direction the score should take!


Yes, start the clip at 1:45


 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 3:06 AM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

I was today years old when I realized the title is a play on words.

Holy crap! Never noticed!! haha!
I Norway they retitled it "Et Amerikansk Eventyr" (An American Tale/Fairytale).
Guess they didnt notice either, lol

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 5:15 AM   
 By:   Dadid L   (Member)

Mine arrived today, bought it super quick. I really enjoy this score. I also find this is one where I need to arrange a few songs towards the end at least on first listen. I would have preferred if the instrumental version of Somewhere Out There was the orchestral not the pop version but what can you do? With all the songs and Warren T Rat track moved to the end it is almost perfect.
The one part that will forever drive me nuts is how Releasing the Secret Weapon ends with a short reprise of There are No Cats in America and some Chinese style music.


Damn the movie for dictating what direction the score should take!


Personally this reprise of "There are No Cats..." (with its stereo panning) is one of my favorite moments ! smile

By the way, not having heard it yet, I wonder why you isolate "Warren T Rat" from the rest of the score... Is it related to a song ? Personnally, in scores like this with orchestral songs thematicaly tied to the score, I prefer to listen to them in movie order.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 5:48 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Holy crap! Never noticed!! haha!
I Norway they retitled it "Et Amerikansk Eventyr" (An American Tale/Fairytale).
Guess they didnt notice either, lol


Curiously, on the back cover of their recent (not very good) album "James Horner Classics", Sony Classical also titled this as "An American Tale" - so they didn't get it either.

Even more curiously, it's named correctly inside the booklet.

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 8:31 AM   
 By:   Frank Vincent   (Member)

The Dutch title is "Een avontuur met een staartje" (An adventure with a tail).

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 9:01 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Got the "Tail" pun right away when the film was released.

Also those asking for instrumentals, did you not see the "Extras" section? I'm sure if they could've added more they would've.

Regarding the tracks listed on the back tray. I don't see the music that plays when the family is boarding the boat. Was that "traditional". I just assumed Horner wrote that. Not a big deal if it's not on the release. Just wondering.

Also baffled what "Dissolved Out To Sea/Lullaby" is. I don't see the music when Fievel runs off to find fish which takes place at that spot in the film.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 11:02 AM   
 By:   kaseykockroach   (Member)

I’ve been wanting the cue “Chase in the Mauler’s Den” for eons!! That alone made this so worth the wait. Also amused by the Aliens-esque stinger during "Building the Giant Mouse of Minsk".
I'm sure the whining about "dynamic range" will continue, but I like being able to play this score without having to turn the speakers up to deafening levels.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 11:33 AM   
 By:   Avatarded   (Member)


Regarding the tracks listed on the back tray. I don't see the music that plays when the family is boarding the boat. Was that "traditional". I just assumed Horner wrote that. Not a big deal if it's not on the release. Just wondering.

Also baffled what "Dissolved Out To Sea/Lullaby" is. I don't see the music when Fievel runs off to find fish which takes place at that spot in the film.


From our review:

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/an-american-tail-expanded-edition-our-exclusive-review/

Which mr Cockroach called the 'dumbest fucking thing he's ever read' because of one line about the film looking dated, having ignored the entirety of detail about the score and the film...good on him. Anyway...

3 Dissolve To Sea (9:14 – 10:10) previously unreleased
This short cue plays after the ocean liner has left port and it is remarkable for the way Horner allows Papa’s violin to alternate between being part of the story and part of the storytelling, between source music and underscore.

The music fades and the subsequent scene with the herring barrel is left unscored. Fievel marvels at the fish in the barrel and when Papa tells him there’s plenty more fish in the sea, Fievel can’t wait to go and see.

“Let’s Go Up and See The Fish!” (10:35 – 10:55) unreleased
This very short and lightning-fast action cue alternates between flashes of Fievel’s adventure theme and bumbling brass for Papa trying to keep up with his son. When Fievel runs into Mama, the cue reaches an upbeat and musically formal conclusion. While only 20 seconds long, it’s a wonderful little cue, but sadly, it’s missing from Intrada’s expanded edition.

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 11:58 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)


Regarding the tracks listed on the back tray. I don't see the music that plays when the family is boarding the boat. Was that "traditional". I just assumed Horner wrote that. Not a big deal if it's not on the release. Just wondering.

Also baffled what "Dissolved Out To Sea/Lullaby" is. I don't see the music when Fievel runs off to find fish which takes place at that spot in the film.


From our review:

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/an-american-tail-expanded-edition-our-exclusive-review/

Which mr Cockroach called the 'dumbest fucking thing he's ever read' because of one line about the film looking dated, having ignored the entirety of detail about the score and the film...good on him. Anyway...

3 Dissolve To Sea (9:14 – 10:10) previously unreleased
This short cue plays after the ocean liner has left port and it is remarkable for the way Horner allows Papa’s violin to alternate between being part of the story and part of the storytelling, between source music and underscore.

The music fades and the subsequent scene with the herring barrel is left unscored. Fievel marvels at the fish in the barrel and when Papa tells him there’s plenty more fish in the sea, Fievel can’t wait to go and see.

“Let’s Go Up and See The Fish!” (10:35 – 10:55) unreleased
This very short and lightning-fast action cue alternates between flashes of Fievel’s adventure theme and bumbling brass for Papa trying to keep up with his son. When Fievel runs into Mama, the cue reaches an upbeat and musically formal conclusion. While only 20 seconds long, it’s a wonderful little cue, but sadly, it’s missing from Intrada’s expanded edition.


Awesome, thank you much! Sad that short cue is missing though.

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)


“Let’s Go Up and See The Fish!” (10:35 – 10:55) unreleased
This very short and lightning-fast action cue alternates between flashes of Fievel’s adventure theme and bumbling brass for Papa trying to keep up with his son. When Fievel runs into Mama, the cue reaches an upbeat and musically formal conclusion. While only 20 seconds long, it’s a wonderful little cue, but sadly, it’s missing from Intrada’s expanded edition.


Well, that's disappointing. frown How could that one (albeit brief) cue go missing while Intrada managed to find all of the other unreleased cues?

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 12:59 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)


“Let’s Go Up and See The Fish!” (10:35 – 10:55) unreleased
This very short and lightning-fast action cue alternates between flashes of Fievel’s adventure theme and bumbling brass for Papa trying to keep up with his son. When Fievel runs into Mama, the cue reaches an upbeat and musically formal conclusion. While only 20 seconds long, it’s a wonderful little cue, but sadly, it’s missing from Intrada’s expanded edition.


Well, that's disappointing. frown How could that one (albeit brief) cue go missing while Intrada managed to find all of the other unreleased cues?


Two actually as I mentioned. The boarding the boat, "polka" music and the "finding fish" cue. It appears the entirety of the score is otherwise present and that's awesome because there's many wonderful statements in the previously unreleased music.

Reading the article reminds me how brilliant this score is. Every shot of every frame drew meaning from the music.

Just on aside, The Secret of NIMH wasn't a commercial success. It bombed. Advertising was pulled after a week and I think the film was pulled within three weeks. It got run over by E.T. the family film of the decade. It was well received critically though.

Bluth's financier pulled out of financing his second film and he almost went bankrupt until Spielberg came by and saved him in the short term. Even then, all salaries (and other employee perks) were frozen for the 2.5 years Tail was in production.

BTW, Spielberg was introduced to Bluth via Jerry Goldsmith. He told him about his involvement on NIMH and Spielberg arranged a private screening of NIMH. He was floored by the production and said no one does animation like that anymore. It reminded him of Disney's Pinocchio. Jerry Goldsmith was going to score Tail but had to drop out because of other commitments.

Also of note. Bluth and Spielberg agreed to a three picture deal. But things got so hotly contested by the end of The Land Before Time, they agreed to go their separate ways. Made a little easy by Bluth as he found a new foreign investor who agreed to fund a new three picture deal.

On further note, Bluth had first rights of refusal regarding An American Tail sequel. Bluth declined so Spielberg had to find animators in Europe. Which is funny because when he originally proposed An American Tail he was quoted as saying hes not going to animate a movie called An American Tail with non American animators.

 
 Posted:   Feb 15, 2019 - 1:06 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

The polka source music I can live without, but I always loved that little burst of chase music for Papa Mousekewicz chasing after Fievel, so it's regrettable it's the one score cue missing.

 
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