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 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 9:19 AM   
 By:   Mike Matessino   (Member)

Very mixing feelings about Sups. From one hand, I'm glad, that after Blue Box was finally sold out, the score still be in-print. From the other hand....

Does it mean that in 2028 we will get 50th Anniversary edition, which will sounds even better, with another 1-2 tracks, which no-one heard for 50 years? wink

And in serious mode - I understand that this new edition is remastered, improved etc., etc. and etc.
But if I already own Blue Box, do I really need to upgrade it? Please, don't say - just listen samples & compare.
I don't have expensive hi-fi equipment, so if I couldn't hear difference on my current equipment, I'll wait with this one. Let's face it - $35 (+ another $35 for bonus tracks, which were released on Superman 2-3 set), plus huge international shipping costs just for some short new tracks and better sound (with no guarantee that I'll hear the difference!) - is too much for me.

It will be very helpful, if Mike can comment about improvements etc.


I feel the frustration when it comes to international shipping. It's gotten ridiculous. On this side of the equation, all we can do is get the projects done and make sure that a masterpiece like this is preserved, made available, and presented as best as we can.

I'll leave it others to comment on the quality of the sound on inexpensive equipment or otherwise, but honestly there is nowhere to go from here for the 50th or at any later time other than a high resolution release. There's no infrastructure in place for that at the moment because it involves two unrelated corporate entities, hence the flourishing of third party labels. At this moment in time, licenses are granted to those third party labels for physical compact disc product. And further note that with this studio it is the label who pays for the shipping in of the boxes and all the transfers as well as the mastering work, etc.

Like buying a new car, sometimes you have to just accept that the money isn't there right now. Maybe it will be in the future, and at least with this score it's popular enough to expect that it will always in print. With the good fortune of it being a UK recording, it's something that La-La Land (especially knowing MV's feelings about it) will want to keep in their catalog as long as possible.

On the other hand, life is short and if you are passionate about something, that can sometimes take precedence over financial factors, especially when you want to be supportive of those who work to make available those things you are passionate about. There is no shame in a decision either way, but no one can really make it for you.

Mike M.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 9:19 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I'm wrestling with this Superman decision. It would be the sixth time I'm buying the score, starting from the LP. And yes, each edition is better than the last. But it's a very individual thing and no one can decide it for you.

Who are you kidding? You have no choice! wink

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 10:41 AM   
 By:   ghost of 82   (Member)

...On the other hand, life is short and if you are passionate about something, that can sometimes take precedence over financial factors, especially when you want to be supportive of those who work to make available those things you are passionate about. There is no shame in a decision either way, but no one can really make it for you.

Mike M.


Which is exactly how I felt regards the Thin Red Line release, which has come under fire for its 4-disc extravagance and cost me a fortune to buy/ship over here to the UK, but I adore the film and music and it was such an unlikely project that I never deemed possible, I just had to vote with my wallet, as it were, in voicing my support and appreciation to all involved making it happen. It even arrived the day before my birthday, so it was beyond great to have it and listen to it (I'm still taking it all in).

I'm sure I'll get this new Superman too. It was announced on my birthday, and just as a curio, I was bought the original vinyl album for my 13th birthday, back on Feb 15th, 1979. So it's inevitable really, I'm just dithering over the Supes II/III set as I'm not a huge fan of those but I'd like the extras from Superman: The Movie (time for an early sale, LLL, if I could be so bold).

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 11:22 AM   
 By:   alexp   (Member)

Hi Mike M.

Would you know if Superman-The Movie will have a Film-with-Live-Orchestra or Live-to-projection concert program?

I'm asking you this because you said that you were involved in the Live-to-projection concert program of CE3K in that Caped-Wonder podcast.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 11:33 AM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

It goes without saying that the level of sophistication in Williams' writing for Superman is almost beyond description. I wish the full conductor's score could be released so that us humble composers can get a glimpse of the brilliance that is Superman. As it is, there is just the Hal Leonard Signature edition of the March which in of itself is a treat to peruse.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 2:11 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

It goes without saying that the level of sophistication in Williams' writing for Superman is almost beyond description. I wish the full conductor's score could be released so that us humble composers can get a glimpse of the brilliance that is Superman. As it is, there is just the Hal Leonard Signature edition of the March which in of itself is a treat to peruse.

SUPERMAN is truly astonishing.

Williams does what Glass did with KOYAANISQASTI - he sums up the all possibilities of a particular style in one work.
In this case the traditional symphony style of scoring, including leitmotifs, is enhanced with all that is modern; new age music, atonality, electronics etc.

And the themes are absolutely inspired!

A magnum opus!
bruce

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 2:13 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

I'm wrestling with this Superman decision. It would be the sixth time I'm buying the score, starting from the LP. And yes, each edition is better than the last. But it's a very individual thing and no one can decide it for you.

Who are you kidding? You have no choice! wink


The Solium Imperative

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 2:14 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

I'm wrestling with this Superman decision. It would be the sixth time I'm buying the score, ....

"wrestling"?
oh come on Zap, you know you have zero willpower when it comes to these things!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 2:16 PM   
 By:   jenkwombat   (Member)



Does anyone know if Superman: The Movie will be offered for sale at SAE?


Why wouldn't it be? Why would anyone even ask that question unless perhaps they were new to buying scores from the specialty labels...


It wasn't there all day yesterday or this morning.

It is now, though! Got it! smile

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 2:39 PM   
 By:   Mike Matessino   (Member)

...On the other hand, life is short and if you are passionate about something, that can sometimes take precedence over financial factors, especially when you want to be supportive of those who work to make available those things you are passionate about. There is no shame in a decision either way, but no one can really make it for you.

Mike M.


Which is exactly how I felt regards the Thin Red Line release, which has come under fire for its 4-disc extravagance and cost me a fortune to buy/ship over here to the UK, but I adore the film and music and it was such an unlikely project that I never deemed possible, I just had to vote with my wallet, as it were, in voicing my support and appreciation to all involved making it happen. It even arrived the day before my birthday, so it was beyond great to have it and listen to it (I'm still taking it all in).

I'm sure I'll get this new Superman too. It was announced on my birthday, and just as a curio, I was bought the original vinyl album for my 13th birthday, back on Feb 15th, 1979. So it's inevitable really, I'm just dithering over the Supes II/III set as I'm not a huge fan of those but I'd like the extras from Superman: The Movie (time for an early sale, LLL, if I could be so bold).


Well, happy belated birthday! February 15 is Superman Soundtrack Day more for you than the rest of us!

I understand about The Thin Red Line as well, but after a period where Mr. Zimmer was not wanting any expansions to happen, we needed to go with the release as he asked for it to be. It was also a very big project for Nick Redman, who was very passionate about it. And none of us realized, of course, that it would basically be his soundtrack swan song.

So our dilemma is that we all have to do what we have to do, whether it be including the S:TM source music on the SII+III set rather than drop it entirely, never to be released again, or to decide that cold hard financial reality has to take precedence.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 2:46 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Curious about the fact that Zimmer wanted the chants cd included.
On the dvd (Criterion) commentary track, the producer stated that Malick went back to Melanesia to record the chants after first hearing them on location.
SO, It was Malick who came up with the idea to incorporate them into the score : in original vocal form and orchestrated>.

A brilliant decision and one that appears to not be of Zimmer 's origins>

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 2:53 PM   
 By:   Martin B.   (Member)


I understand about The Thin Red Line as well, but after a period where Mr. Zimmer was not wanting any expansions to happen, we needed to go with the release as he asked for it to be. It was also a very big project for Nick Redman, who was very passionate about it. And none of us realized, of course, that it would basically be his soundtrack swan song.


Hopefully, HZ is pleased with the result and decides to allow further expansions - so long as they weren’t originally released on Sony I guess.
It certainly looks impressive and it was pretty obvious that discs 3&4 were a contractual inclusion - either by Zimmer or the label.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 2:56 PM   
 By:   erepel   (Member)

Superman: What is the story of the switch of the main title and end title music? And the "up and away" 4-note motif from the low brass when the "S" shield appears (or, at the end of the movie, when the sun rises), any reason why that is not included in concert arrangements? Apart from Superman-The Movie, only Superman Returns (as far as I know) also has the low brass "up and away" motif.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 5:13 PM   
 By:   Ed   (Member)

Here's the comparison no one asked for: the new Superman source tracks as presented on the SII/SIII set are worlds away from the ones presented in the Blue Box. The stereo is more defined for one thing with a wider apparent soundstage and much more instrument separation. The sound is clearer, warmer, and less harsh owing to the use of earlier-generation masters, presumably first-generation as was the rest of the score. The overtones of each instrument are there as is a sense of natural ambience around each individual performer. The difference is not subtle. And this is just the source music. There is an editorial difference in the way "Kansas High School" has been assembled in the new version: all the parts are there but there is an introductory horn riff that started the piece in the Blue Box that has been moved to the middle in the new version, and a repeat of the melody at the end has been eliminated. No big deal - this is probably closer to Williams' original intent. Can't wait to hear the score proper with this much improvement. Lots of love to Mike M. for all his hard work.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 5:30 PM   
 By:   JJournalist   (Member)

I was *this* close to ordering Thin Red Line (and who knows, before the month is over, I still might) but in Canadian it would have cost $98. The HP set cost around $164 CD which was a wallet gouger. However, I ordered Superman ten minutes after the announcement and price is the furthest thing from my mind with that one. I actually see it's 'Awaiting shipment'. Such teasing.

I would buy TRL in a minute should it go towards helping to expand future HZ releases like Pacific Heights. Is there anything on Green Card to expand? A proper expanded Backdraft. I love this Zimmer era.

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 5:44 PM   
 By:   JRP   (Member)

Wonderful news LLL!! It's been hard holding on to the extra cash I've saved. I'm ordering along w/ parts II/III and IV. Gotta have the set! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 6:23 PM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

New sources for Sup AND some unreleased Goldsmith?

FAN-FREAKING-TASTIC!

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 7:20 PM   
 By:   Jeyl   (Member)

When I first looked at that Superman Promo Picture,

"Restored for the first generation that matters."

Aww, and I really wanted this new release.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 8:15 PM   
 By:   jmarc   (Member)

Here's the comparison no one asked for: the new Superman source tracks as presented on the SII/SIII set are worlds away from the ones presented in the Blue Box. The stereo is more defined for one thing with a wider apparent soundstage and much more instrument separation. The sound is clearer, warmer, and less harsh owing to the use of earlier-generation masters, presumably first-generation as was the rest of the score. The overtones of each instrument are there as is a sense of natural ambience around each individual performer. The difference is not subtle. And this is just the source music. There is an editorial difference in the way "Kansas High School" has been assembled in the new version: all the parts are there but there is an introductory horn riff that started the piece in the Blue Box that has been moved to the middle in the new version, and a repeat of the melody at the end has been eliminated. No big deal - this is probably closer to Williams' original intent. Can't wait to hear the score proper with this much improvement. Lots of love to Mike M. for all his hard work.

I was wanting to hear some comparisons between the Blue Box and the new II / III set. I may have to pick it up.

I remember leaving the Drive in (?) as a kid and humming the Superman theme. I taped it off tv, bought a cassette, and every cd version there’s been. I’m definitely getting this!

 
 Posted:   Feb 16, 2019 - 8:40 PM   
 By:   Mike Matessino   (Member)

Here's the comparison no one asked for: the new Superman source tracks as presented on the SII/SIII set are worlds away from the ones presented in the Blue Box. The stereo is more defined for one thing with a wider apparent soundstage and much more instrument separation. The sound is clearer, warmer, and less harsh owing to the use of earlier-generation masters, presumably first-generation as was the rest of the score. The overtones of each instrument are there as is a sense of natural ambience around each individual performer. The difference is not subtle. And this is just the source music. There is an editorial difference in the way "Kansas High School" has been assembled in the new version: all the parts are there but there is an introductory horn riff that started the piece in the Blue Box that has been moved to the middle in the new version, and a repeat of the melody at the end has been eliminated. No big deal - this is probably closer to Williams' original intent. Can't wait to hear the score proper with this much improvement. Lots of love to Mike M. for all his hard work.

Thanks for noticing! The STM source music on SII/III is indeed exactly as it was recorded and now mixed from the 2-inch masters. On the FSM box all I had were fragments from the mixed dubbing stems that were given to me on DA88 tapes in 1999 for the Rhino project! They were already cut to fit the scenes in the TV version, so I had to editorially turn them into listenable tracks (so some have repeated sections). The only really "intact" piece was the Hawaiian music, which is why that was on the Rhino release (plus it was actually in the film) and then carried over to the FSM box.

(For the record, I also did new mixes of the SII source music because I thought they could match everything else better - other than "Honeymoon Hotel," which came from the album master.)

 
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