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Do you have to be sitting in that exact spot to fully experience the sound?
No - in fact, having more speakers spreads out the sweet spot further so more people get the benefit. That said, the best listening experience IS in the sweet spot indicated in the drawing, and where you would want to sit for *critical* listening.
That's also true in movie theaters. In almost all cases, the best listening experience is about 2/3 of the way back from the screen in the middle of the theater. There you will most closely experience what the actual film mixer heard.
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Yes, while ATMOS is neat in principle, I personally do not find it practical for home use.
You can get Atmos soundbars now. Though I head a demo and appreciated the "effort" but my brain can't get around "virtual" surround.
5.1 is actually fine. It positions the bulk of the right audio in the right place. Everything beyond that is a nice to have, but not something I, personally, need.
5.1 is terrific! I'm not trying to say here that everyone *must* have ATMOS. It is cool, but at this point, most existing films are 5.1. Most newer films are ATMOS (or DTS-X) though.
The good news is that ATMOS mixes "fold down" to 5.1 quite well, and still sound great.
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I'll close with a diagram of my own personal surround immersive surround setup (called 9.4.6 - nine speakers "on the floor," four subwoofers, and six height speakers) stolen from the Dolby website./
That's an impressive setup, John. I have two questions.
1. Why do you need 4 subwoofers?
2. What are the dimensions of your home theatre?
There is extensive research that shows multiple subwoofers does a much better job of evening out room modes (getting rid of bass nulls and peaks) and give greater output as well. Four subwoofers is pretty much the optimum configuration, assuming proper calibration - bass is powerful but tight, and all listeners get to experience good bass response in their seat. I've seen many people put in a single giant 18" sub but end up sitting in a bass null, and wonder why they have no bass. Four 12" subs does a much better job than a single 18" or 21" sub - tighter and more powerful. EXCELLENT article on this here, by Dr. Floyd Toole - quick, easy to follow read: https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/history-of-multi-sub-sfm
My room is 16' wide x 22' deep and 8' high. Ideally I would have higher ceilings. My room is completely decked out with all the gear that wins my company's competitive product shootouts - a benefit of being the owner  . I also mix films and compose film scores as well, and I do QC work on my mixes in this same theater space.
Gotta run to a meeting, but later I will break out what's in there.
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Yes, while ATMOS is neat in principle, I personally do not find it practical for home use.
It's a challenge in many rooms. About 90% of the theaters we do are retrofits into living areas - family and living rooms. ATMOS can be done in most rooms, but in some it's just impossible.
My own theater is the lower level of a tri-level home. There is a hallway to the left of the main listening position, and the rear of the room is open to the kitchen, which is three steps up. I have a portable acoustic wall I close between the theater and the kitchen when watching or listening.
Point being, we've been able to make ATMOS work in a surprising number of spaces. Perfectly? No. But I have never come across a "perfect" room in all my years of doing this
I considered an ATMOS setup when updating my stereo system, but -- while it's without a doubt cool -- I just did not want to place speakers all around the place, just was't really worth it, at least not for me in the total of all things... by no means would I say that ATMOS isn't worth it per se. But I need the sound for music first, movies second, so in the end, I decided on a good set of floor speakers and that's it.
I don't even have a subwoofer anymore, because it's always tricky to place that thing.
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The funny this is that you can never recreate the cinema experience in your own home, because that experience is more than "just" the technical attributes of the movie and the room. It's about (for better or worse) travelling there, the food and drink kiosk, the other people experiencing the movie with you, the sitting firmly in your seat during the closing credits while the cleaners give you funny looks. The "event" of it.
Plus you're generally watching a movie you've never seen before rather than an old favourite, so your expectations - even your concentration levels - are different.
Watching movies at home is a different thing.
Oh, yes, indeed. I agree with you, going to a movie is not just "watching" a movie.
(Though I have to admit that I can do without the "other people" by now.
Too often, I've been annoyed with people talking during movies, or just munching stuff that's too loud (like chips) or whatever, so that by now, where TV screens have become large and resolutions high, I enjoy watching movies at home very much too these days. It's still an event in that we usually sit together on the couch, drink some wine, have some nuts or chips (hey, we're the only one there, then it's ok. :-).)
I still go to the movies, but more sporadically, most recently, I think, it was when I saw ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD together with a friend.
But yes, it's an "event", and maybe you have something to eat and drink before or after... sometimes it is just fun to go out, go to a movie, get some popcorn, and watch something that just came out.
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Posted: |
Jul 23, 2020 - 5:01 PM
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By: |
Howard L
(Member)
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My room is 16' wide x 22' deep and 8' high. Ideally I would have higher ceilings. My room is completely decked out with all the gear that wins my company's competitive product shootouts - a benefit of being the owner . I also mix films and compose film scores as well, and I do QC work on my mixes in this same theater space.
The funny this is that you can never recreate the cinema experience in your own home, because that experience is more than "just" the technical attributes of the movie and the room.
Ah what you need is an underground cave, something along the lines of the Caped Crusader and his sidekick's secret private domain but with an absolutely drop dead gorgeous knock yourself out sound system to bathe in and blast you out of orbit.
We're currently building a new house and I briefly even considered an ATMOS setup (since we're starting from a "clean slate"), but -- while it's without a doubt cool -- the price-performance ration just was't really worth it (for me in the total of all things... I quickly arrived at $60000.- ... by no means would I say that ATMOS isn't worth it per se or that it cannot be done for less money).
That's it, baby, when you've got it, flaunt it, flaunt it!
He points to writing along the length of its top which can’t quite be deciphered fully until he flicks a switch, and now the arch’s inscription is plainly visible even in the dim light...The group—save Jerry—shares knowing smiles, and then Jim takes them through the archway and straight to—a staircase!...
...Jim walks over to a panel and dims the lights. The immense “hall” is dominated by a huge slightly-curved screen, and on that screen now flickers images. They’re scenes--scenes, one on top of the other, scenes weaving in and out of the decades in glorious Technicolor, breathtaking CinemaScope, Cinerama, Vistavision, Superscope, Todd A-O, celestial black-and-white, and more; Jim also pumps up the volume and the combination of sight, sound...and music allows the entire hall to become filled with the glory of the motion picture experience in all its visual and Vitaphonic, stereophonic, and Sensurround splendor. The travelers stand there motionless, allowing themselves to absorb the light and the symphony...
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That's it, baby, when you've got it, flaunt it, flaunt it!
Haha.. OMG, I did not mean to flaunt at all, especially as there is nothing to flaunt about. (I'm certainly not rich or so.) It just occupies you day after day, so suddenly, it becomes "normal". I rewrote my original post...
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Posted: |
Jul 24, 2020 - 7:46 AM
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By: |
Howard L
(Member)
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That's it, baby, when you've got it, flaunt it, flaunt it!
Haha.. OMG, I did not mean to flaunt at all, especially as there is nothing to flaunt about. (I'm certainly not rich or so.) It just occupies you day after day, so suddenly, it becomes "normal". I rewrote my original post...
No sweat, Nic, that was me quoting Zero Mostel in The Producers and he was hysterically  ! You most certainly were not flaunting anything. Oh and in the snippet portion of previous reply the "Jim" is Jim Cleveland and the "Jerry" is--take a wild guess!
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That's also true in movie theaters. In almost all cases, the best listening experience is about 2/3 of the way back from the screen in the middle of the theater. There you will most closely experience what the actual film mixer heard.
Or as I like to call it: "My seat."
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Do you have to be sitting in that exact spot to fully experience the sound?
No - in fact, having more speakers spreads out the sweet spot further so more people get the benefit. That said, the best listening experience IS in the sweet spot indicated in the drawing, and where you would want to sit for *critical* listening.
That's also true in movie theaters. In almost all cases, the best listening experience is about 2/3 of the way back from the screen in the middle of the theater. There you will most closely experience what the actual film mixer heard.
Ok. Thanks
Are you in the sound....industry or just a big enthusiast? You certainly have a lot knowledge.
I love a great sounding system but with my hearing realise that the cost probably outweighs the benefits.
Actually, that's a good question. I am pretty heavily involved with what passes for the film industry here in Colorado, having scored and done the sound mix for 8 different independent feature films. I've got a film in pre-production right now which I will also be writing and directing; on hold due to COVID concerns. Since I get out to L.A. pretty often, I've also been able to sit in on a few ATMOS mixes (my mixes have all been 5.1).
I'm also good friends with the engineers out at Harman, as the science of all this interests me as well. Harman makes the speakers you find on almost all mix stages (JBL and Revel are divisions of Harman, along with AKG, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, and Soundcraft).
As a sometime film and music mixer, it is critical that the speakers used for monitoring be perfectly neutral and accurate, as otherwise you don't know what you are actually doing to the sound. If you can't count on your monitor speakers to accurately reproduce the recording, it's like trying to do color correction on a video monitor that shows red as purple or green as yellow. What was eye-opening and interesting to me was to find out that there was a great deal of research that shows that consumers also prefer accurate sound when they are able to compare speakers under controlled conditions.
So, to supplement my income working on film projects, I also own a home theater company. What makes us unique is that many of us have experience in the pro audio world, mixing both films and music. The brands we carry represent what you would actually find on a film or music mixing stage.
For my film work, my most notable scores and mixes were for "Halcyon" and "The Creep Behind the Camera." Both 5.1 mixes, both had theatrical premieres (FWIW, Film Music Magazine picked my score for "The Creep..." as best of September 2015: http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=15186).
"The Creep..." premiered at L.A. ScreamFest in 2016, and I was happy to hear my mix sounding good in the Hollywood TCL Chinese Theater (formerly Grauman's Chinese), which had recently been upgraded / updated in both sound and projection. You can order the Blu-ray online, and last I checked it was streaming on Netflix.
"Halcyon" had Courtney Gains, Pepper Binkley and Mykel Shannon Jenkins and is currently available to stream on Amazon Prime. Did the entire score and sound mix, from dialogue editing to final master. Proud of the mix on this one, which involved creating a total sound environment for an undersea research vessel that sustains major damage from an undersea earthquake (film itself is so so).
Just finished the final mix for "The Fandom," an excellent documentary on the "furry" phenomenon. Watch for it - it's terrific. Didn't do the music on this one, just the final mix.
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Bruce was referencing Dolby Atmos Music here. He used a piece of Star Trek TMP as a demo for the format. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the audio for the movie itself.
https://www.dolby.com/music/
Yeah, I think some people were extrapolating that he was re-mixing the music into Atmos in preparation for its use in a remix of the film as well. This doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me, as it's hard to imagine that the music is being mixed into the Atmos format for a music only release. However, if this is indeed the case, I'd be very happy to have the ST-TMP score remixed for Atmos, as I'd love to hear it and own it (assuming it is done well, of course). I've got a few Atmos music mixes and some of them are quite extraordinary.
Bruce adds a little fuel to the fire when he says in the interview posted that listeners will be able to hear "V'Ger over their head." I assumed he was referring to the blaster beam, but I can see why some people would assume he was talking about a remix of the film itself.
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Bruce was referencing Dolby Atmos Music here. He used a piece of Star Trek TMP as a demo for the format. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the audio for the movie itself.
https://www.dolby.com/music/
Link looks like a new streaming service.
I'm open to seeing what this new service can do for a soundtrack presention.
If not now, then later.
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Bruce was referencing Dolby Atmos Music here. He used a piece of Star Trek TMP as a demo for the format. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the audio for the movie itself.
https://www.dolby.com/music/
Link looks like a new streaming service.
I'm open to seeing what this new service can do for a soundtrack presention.
If not now, then later.
Dolby Atmos Music is not a new streaming service, it's already available through Tidal and Amazon Music HD
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