I'm aware of Dave's definition. That, and many subsequent replies, were my whole reason for posting. It's a great period to speak about; I simply disagree with calling it 'early years'.
Agreed, I would say RAIN MAN and BLACK RAIN and DRIVING MISS DAISY were the "turning points" in Hans Zimmer's career. All the stuff up to these, like MY BEAUTIFUL LAUNDRETTE, were his "early years", but these three movies firmly established him as an important composer in Hollywood.
I suppose you weren't around at the time. Go back to any fanzine at the time (FSM or otherwise), or even industry magazines, and it's pretty clear. Even though he wasn't the rock star he is today, he recruited far more new film music fans than those gentlemen, and was a reference point in all discussions. In many cases, he was a greater and more popular crossover composer than Morricone or Williams.
I think we would have to ask someone who was alive and into film music when those gentlemen were in their early careers to have a fair comparison to your claim.
As such, all I can say is that STAR WARS went platinum with ONLY Williams compositions in August of 1977, two months after its release. THE LION KING went diamond a good year and some change after the release, and then likely because of the Elton John songs, not because of the Zimmer score. They were not in the same league at that point in their careers and the numbers don't lie.
But I think we're just splitting hairs at this point.
Have been waiting since 1989 for a release of the entire score.
This sounds good. Almost like Alan Parsons Project (who I love). Nice piece!
Was a terrific movie too. Hard to find tho. There was a DVD release but it's out-of-print.
When I first saw it, I was wowed by the score, but being a British TV movie, the composer credit didn't appear until the end credits, and I was like "The Rain Man guy?"
As such, all I can say is that STAR WARS went platinum with ONLY Williams compositions in August of 1977, two months after its release. THE LION KING went diamond a good year and some change after the release, and then likely because of the Elton John songs, not because of the Zimmer score. They were not in the same league at that point in their careers and the numbers don't lie.
I'd say the Williams of the JAWS/STAR WARS period pretty much mirrors Zimmer's of the THE ROCK/CRIMSON TIDE period. Neither of them in their 'early years', both in their primes.
I'll say it's right around 1994/1995, with THE LION KING first, then CRIMSON TIDE and the insanely popular THE ROCK, which in itself created a new generation of film music fans..
I really have no recollection of THE ROCK being such a huge film score watershed in the states, but it probably made more of a splash on your side of the globe.
And didn't even Zimmer himself say the score was mostly Nick Glennie-Smith's effort? I'd say Nick got robbed if Zimmer got all the glory from that.
As such, all I can say is that STAR WARS went platinum with ONLY Williams compositions in August of 1977, two months after its release. THE LION KING went diamond a good year and some change after the release, and then likely because of the Elton John songs, not because of the Zimmer score. They were not in the same league at that point in their careers and the numbers don't lie. I'd say the Williams of the JAWS/STAR WARS period pretty much mirrors Zimmer's of the THE ROCK/CRIMSON TIDE period. Neither of them in their 'early years', both in their primes.
Just so I understand correctly, you'd rather argue about what defines "early years", instead of contributing your thoughts to the time period as laid out by the OP's first post? You know, you could always start a new thread devoted to the time period that you are talking about.
I'll say it's right around 1994/1995, with THE LION KING first, then CRIMSON TIDE and the insanely popular THE ROCK, which in itself created a new generation of film music fans..
I really have no recollection of THE ROCK being such a huge film score watershed in the states, but it probably made more of a splash on your side of the globe.
And didn't even Zimmer himself say the score was mostly Nick Glennie-Smith's effort? I'd say Nick got robbed if Zimmer got all the glory from that.
Yeah or the fact that an R rated film would have created a new generation of fans when that new generation was too young to be admitted to the film! THE LION KING seems much more in line with recruiting a new generation.
Yeah or the fact that an R rated film would have created a new generation of fans when that new generation was too young to be admitted to the film! THE LION KING seems much more in line with recruiting a new generation.
Probably did. But so did THE ROCK. If you weren't around at the time, and have no particular interest in Zimmer, I'm surprised you phrase yourself with such over-confidence. I was there and remember the big hooplah around it at the time, as previously mentioned.
Probably did. But so did THE ROCK. If you weren't around at the time, and have no particular interest in Zimmer, I'm surprised you phrase yourself with such over-confidence. I was there and remember the big hooplah around it at the time, as previously mentioned.
I don't think I ever said I wasn't around at the time, that was just assumed. I remember THE ROCK premiering quite well.
I don't think it's over-confident to say that an R rated film has less broad appeal than a G or PG rated film, or that one had more of an impact on his career than the other.
Just so I understand correctly, you'd rather argue about what defines "early years", instead of contributing your thoughts to the time period as laid out by the OP's first post?
That's right. What we call things matter, and I find that both interesting and important. I really don't need you to police what things we find interesting to talk about in a thread, whether it's the premise or other things.
But, to provide some of my own favourites:
For Zimmer's PROPER early years, I really like CASTAWAY, MY BEAUTIFUL LAUNDRETTE, INSIGNIFICANCE, RAIN MAN and A WORLD APART.
For the "Golden Age" 90s period, I wouldn't really know where to start or stop, there are so many good ones. But BEYOND RANGOON towers at the top (one of my alltime favourite scores). Also special shoutouts to DAYS OF THUNDER, GREEN CARD, K2, BACKDRAFT, REGARDING HENRY, THELMA & LOUISE, THE HOUSE OF THE SPIRITS, POINT OF NO RETURN, THE LION KING, CRIMSON TIDE, THE ROCK, THE PRINCE OF EGYPT and THE THIN RED LINE.
I'll admit, I am a fan of all of Zimmer's years. Not all of his scores are faves but overall from his early years to now, I do enjoy. I became a fan after Backdraft and then noticed his change in style with Crimson Tide. He got roasted by a huge number of filmscore fans when Gladiator was released but that is a top fave of mine from him.
I really find his jaunty, delicate score to Driving Miss Daisy a pleasure to listen to and he pretty well deserved the Oscar for The Lion King, but his music to The Prince of Egypt to be even better. "The Burning Bush" cue still gives me chills.
What we call things matters EXCEPT when we are talking about how big of a film THE ROCK actually was
THE ROCK was a pretty big commercial success as a film, and a revered action classic also in retrospect (even released on Criterion), but that's really irrelevant. What matters in this context is how popular the score became, both among people who were already film score/Zimmer fans (like myself) and those who became film score fans through it. It even happened in my very own circle of non-film music interested friends, to say nothing of early film music discussion forums where it was THE ROCK left and right. I think if you search this very forum in its earliest days, you can find many examples.
Now, you're free to deny that THE ROCK was a doorway into film music for a great many people, mouse, but that would be a statement that most people would find bizarre, to put it mildly. It would be revisionist history.
Now, you're free to deny that THE ROCK was a doorway into film music for a great many people, mouse, but that would be a statement that most people would find bizarre, to put it mildly. It would be revisionist history.
“Most people” where? The Rock was a popular action film, sure, but here in the states, the score wasn’t a discussion item like Star Wars, Batman or Titanic. You keep stating it like it set the entire world on fire when it really didn’t. Nobody here was humming the theme like people hummed the “Raiders” march. It’s not even as memorable as the Pirates of the Caribbean theme, which is immediately recognizable and really quite good. It’s even played as “elevator music” in my office building. Don’t think I’ve heard The Rock yet.
It's not revisionist history. I was there at 30 years old, heavily into film scores, seeing the movie in the theater. The Rock didn’t stand out for its music, it stood out for its obnoxious cinematography and overwrought direction by Michael Bay. I bought the album because that's what I always did (used - years after the fact).
Different cultures get into different things. It may have been the score of the century in your part of the globe, but it wasn't nearly that big here.
Just because you didn't care for it, personally, didn't mean that it wasn't a big gateway for new fans, Oldsmith. Clearly, we have very different experiences and memories here. If time allows, I'll see if I can find some old thread goodies in the forum's past to highlight it. It's a weird thing to have to "prove" -- I was always under the assumption this was as evident as STAR WARS being a gateway for new film music fans back in the 70s.
That's right. What we call things matter, and I find that both interesting and important. I really don't need you to police what things we find interesting to talk about in a thread, whether it's the premise or other things.
You make a bit of a fair point. But it's a bit dramatic to say I want to "police" the thread, mon amie. I am just commenting on how you are trying to commandeer the basic parameters of the thread and make it what you want. As free as you are to keep trying that, we also free to call you out on it.
What is there to "call out"? Is it somehow bad form to discuss parameters and premises if you don't agree with them, or find them strange? If that doesn't interest you, you're free to ignore said discussion.
What is there to "call out"? Is it somehow bad form to discuss parameters and premises if you don't agree with them, or find them strange? If that doesn't interest you, you're free to ignore said discussion.
Actually, it is a bit bad--it's a form of thread-jacking. How bothersome it is is a matter of degrees, of course, so some may disagree with my point.
But to give you the benefit of the doubt, you may not be aware that you do it. And to use your own argument back at you, if the established parameters don't suit you, you are just as free to ignore said discussion. Like I suggested, you can always start a new thread and you can establish any parameters you want.
Just because you didn't care for it, personally, didn't mean that it wasn't a big gateway for new fans, Oldsmith. Clearly, we have very different experiences and memories here. If time allows, I'll see if I can find some old thread goodies in the forum's past to highlight it. It's a weird thing to have to "prove" -- I was always under the assumption this was as evident as STAR WARS being a gateway for new film music fans back in the 70s.
Hate to burst your bubble but Scott M’s assessments are quite correct and I can say this—okay anecdotally—because I too remember when TR hit the cinema on this side of the pond but from the moment it hit FSM and then the original messageboard oh the great majority consensus of the film and score was what it was and this comes from one who has never seen even an iota of the flick but to this very day The Rock in my mind is the touchstone of touchstone pejoratives here at FSNation. It is that ingrained in my memory. But I accept your challenge and say go right ahead and do the old thread schtick while I suck it up and reserve the DVD and then gulp! finally watch the damn thing and see what the fuss was/is/eh all about.
Only speaking from my personal perspective on this, but The Rock was a touchstone score for me and my small collective of friends (in real life) who were burgeoning film score fans. I was about 10 years old when it came out. I had no idea what FSM was at that point of my life. I'm sure many will now bemoan that I was 10 years old and allowed to watch an R-rated Action movie (please save your puritanical opinions to yourself). Not only did we listen to the CD regularly, staging GI Joe battles to it mostly, but we would also hum parts of it amongst one another like a personal statement of our shared affection. And to this day we still do that together. Most users here forget that music is, more than not, personal. It is about our personal experience with it.
all about. 
