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I don't really think of Condorman as a super-hero film, but as an action-comedy.
Same with Conan. Conan is a comic book character, but not what I think of as a super-hero.
That said, that's just how I think. I get why people are including them.
Cheers
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I don't really think of Condorman as a super-hero film, but as an action-comedy.
Same with Conan. Conan is a comic book character, but not what I think of as a super-hero.
That said, that's just how I think. I get why people are including them.
Cheers
The classsic "superhero" genre really started with DC comics and Superman, but as I said, these didn't grow out of nowhere. There were fictional characters who already had various "trademarks" of superheros, even though the template was not yet fully established. Zorro for example, the Lone Ranger, or the often overlooked The Phantom. They are clearly immediate ancestors. Conan is a character from pulp fantasy novels, and he doesn't really have much in common with what is commonly referred to as the "superhero" genre.
Condorman, on the other hand, takes the superhero comics as a starting point, its main character is a comic book artist, so while it is of course an action-comedy spy film, its also clearly tied to the superhero genre, since the "Condorman" in the movie was inspired by the fictional superhero comic strip "Condorman" the main character created.
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I love THE ROCKETEER score, but like a lot of other titles mentioned in this thread, can it be considered a Super Hero Film?
It's just a guy who straps on a jet-pack and does some heroics.
But then BATMAN is just a guy in a suit with some clever devices and props.
It's all so grey and vague, when it comes to the delineation of the subject.
I like the idea of suspending SUPERMAN - THE MOVIE from the list, as it's the clear, CLEAR winner.
And BATMAN 89 seems the popular second choice.
That makes you think about it a bit more.
Of the more recent efforts...
I love the 'ear-wormity' of the Giacchino New-Spiderman theme, but the scores on the whole bore me a bit.
Team Zimmer's recent WONDER WOMAN 84 score was ace.
The Wallfisch SHAZAM! score was pretty neat, if lacking a good 'main theme' blow-out performance.
ANT-MAN by Beck and the various Silvestri Marvel scores all have many moments of complete brilliance.
I really like Doyle's THOR & Gia's DR STRANGE too.
And HANCOCK by John Powell is a winner with me.
Of the more 'vintage' Super Hero film scores, I would add...
SUPERGIRL by Goldsmith, silly zings and whooshes and all.
ROBO-COP by Poledouris...What A Theme!!
METEOR-MAN by Cliff Eidelman, despite its temp-track-itis.
THE PHANTOM by David Newman, just for THAT Theme.
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I love THE ROCKETEER score, but like a lot of other titles mentioned in this thread, can it be considered a Super Hero Film?
It's just a guy who straps on a jet-pack and does some heroics.
But then BATMAN is just a guy in a suit with some clever devices and props.
It's all so grey and vague, when it comes to the delineation of the subject.
Actually, it isn't so hard, the "superhero" genre is actually quite well defined, simply because it is a genre based on archetypes, so there's quite a bit of interesting literature about the genre, from genre surveys, psychological explorations, interpretations, etc.
Now, and that's the key, "well defined" does not mean that there are cookie cutter borders. In every "genre" or "form" of art, there are works that fit and those that somewhat fit and those that fit maybe a little and those that don't fit at all, and a lot depends on how and why you weigh them.
Defining a genre (such as "superhero" or "western" or "comedy" etc.) does not mean drawing a clear border with movies inside and outside, it's not about making fences around movies. It serves more to get a grasp on a particular "type" of movie, to focus on a type of movie that may come in many guises, and the borders are not a line, but more like a color gradient... you can point to where it is clearly green and where it is clearly blue, but there is a lot of fluid transition where it may be green or blue and how you look at it.
For such things it is always helpful to take a look at what point something has become a clear "genre". Superman was clearly the turning point, the de facto ready standard template for the comic book "superhero", and Batman followed directly in Supes' footsteps.
Yet of course Superman/Batman had clear predecessors and influences, like Zorro (who already fills a lot of the "superhero" checkboxes), and the Phantom (who's basically for most "checkboxes" a classic comic book superhero who arrived even before Superman).
So talking about genres is about trying to get the spotlight on a particular subset of movies. Which is why it's neither useful to be too restrictive nor too inclusive when defining what a genre is. If you're too restrictive you will draw arbitrary borders and lose the importance of genre related movies, and if you are too inclusive you're losing the focus. Either isn't helpful. It's not helpful to insist "superheros" must have supernatural powers (even though most are), because there'd rightly be an outcry if you wrote a book called "The Great Book of Superhero Movies" without an entry for BATMAN, yet it would also be not helpful to include GONE WITH THE WIND or SPARTACUS just because there were "heroes" in these movies. That's because genre delineation depends on a variety of aspects, which may even weigh differently from case to case.
So the answer to the question about THE ROCKETEER "can it be considered a Super Hero Film?" in my view is not "yes" or "no" but how does it fit into the genre of "superhero" movie and where does it differ, and it fits in in many places and is a bit on the outside on others, it's on the "color gradient". (If I were directly asked "can the Rocketeer be considered a superhero film" I'd say "yes" rather than "no", it's a "retro-superhero" film.)
It is interesting that when first asked about "favorite superhero" score, my first choice was clearly SUPERMAN, but I had trouble with my second choice. Now I did not think right away of THE ROCKETEER when talking about "superheroes", but there is definitely a lot of common ground, so if one includes it within the genre, that would probably my "running up" candidate for "greatest superhero score".
I think there can be a case made on either side for including or excluding THE ROCKETEER, depending on what you want to focus on. In an Encyclopedia of "Superhero Movies" I'd give THE ROCKETEER an entry, so I'm more on the "including" side. I mean, the comic on which THE ROCKETEER is based is somewhat of a "retro" superhero comic, a comic book from the 1980s, but with the idea to create a comic book as they were created in the 1930s, like THE PHANTOM and BATMAN etc, so it plays with the genre and its conventions.
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Best schmest… here's a list of "superhero" scores which I regard as having provided substantial, if not critical, artistic and/or entertainment value to my viewing experience.
Superman: TM
Supergirl
Batman '89 *
Rocketeer, The *
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm *
Batman Forever *
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The
Punisher, The '04 *
Hellboy '04
Ghost Rider
Spider-Man 3
Amazing Spider-Man, The
Fantastic Four '15
Avengers: Infinity War
Eternals
Venom: Let There Be Carnage
* individuals operating well outside perceived societal norms to perform "heroic" deeds.
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Easily a toss up between William's Superman and Elfman's Batman. Both defined those characters so well. Some might consider the first a more connoisseur's choice, but they're equally enjoyable. I'm more excited by Batman personally, with the trademark Elfman dark sound. But on first hearing it in the cinema back in the day I actually thought it owed a lot to the tradition started by Williams.
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Top Five IMHO
Superman: The Movie
Batman (1989)
Supergirl (1984)
The Rocketeer
Captain America: The First Avenger
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