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I'm waiting for an order to add up.
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A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN is so lovely!
That's what the doctor wrote on September 17. Nearly five weeks ago. And I'm not really sure if he's talking about the score as heard on the new CD. Doctor Nigel? Clarification?
That's how I read it, but I share your disappointment and surprise that there has been no further comment here about this fine release.
For my money this is the most important Goldsmith release we've had in some time, with over 40 minutes of music that's never before been released, plus SUBSTANTIAL improvements in sound when it comes to wow-riddled scores like A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. The number of cues on that has been doubled, so that gorgeous score (a highlight of this set just as it was on the Varese box) now plays much better in my opinion, fleshed out and feeling like a whole score rather than a mere suite. But the sound improvement is a big part of that, too.
Whatever - As far as a can see, the above comment is the ONLY one in this entire thread which "may" be a reaction to the CD after listening to it. If that's the case, it's rather odd. Nobody has anything to say about the music? There may be two reasons for this -
1) A lot of people have received it, listened to it, they have been very disappointed, and they don't want to post their negative thoughts here.
2) It's a typical case of FSM Boarditis - "Right, I've got that new one now, but I HOPE THAT THE NEXT VOLUME INCLUDES....."
I certainly hope it's the latter, even though that's a bummer too! This volume literally contains the most new music of any volume thusfar (and likely more than any future volume could contain as well). I figure that's the explanation for the popularity of our Soundtrack Spotlight episode (which has eclipsed the popularity of all others this year except for Matinee, when we had special guest Joe Dante on). When a longer conversation about very obscure titles is getting substantially more attention than a half hour podcast about Rudy, I thought/hoped that was a good indicator that folks were excited about this release!
So I'm hoping more folks chime in here with their thoughts after listening. I shared my thoughts pretty thoroughly in the Spotlight podcast:
https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/11302249-odyssey-soundtrack-spotlight-goldsmith-at-20th-vol-v-music-for-television-1968-1975
However, I know not everyone likes to listen to podcasts so I'll post my own thoughts here in this thread soon. Maybe a ranking of the seven projects represented herein would help generate some conversation?
Yavar
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Me too, Kev. Have you got it? Mine should be here next week. I'll make sure you all know what I think of it.
Very much looking forward to that, Graham!
For the record, I haven't plunged for this yet (and I'm a tad undecided) and was waiting for some feedback about the additional music or better sound(?).
Are you someone who doesn't much care for podcast listening? Because we focus on the additional music and sound improvements in our Soundtrack Spotlight which I linked to above.
I already have the JG Fox Box, which features a lot of this music already.
It doesn't, though, Kev! This new 2CD set has over two and a quarter hours of music on it!
The JG Fox Box has what, a little over a quarter hour of Anna and the King and a little under a quarter hour of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, totaling about half an hour of overlap with this set? This *doubles* the number of cues from A Tree Grows and MORE than doubles the amount of music for Anna -- one of Jerry's three scores for the series, "The Chimes", now runs 12.5 minutes on this new release when less than 3 minutes of it was on the old Varese box. It's a night and day improvement. (The Varese Anna suite even had the audacity to cut off the March of the Royal Children less than a minute into the 2+ minute composition, before it really gets going!)
A Tree Grows actually feels like a proper full score now rather than a mere suite, and all of the new cues are just as gorgeous as those previously available (actually there are a couple I love even more than any previously released).
I also find the two premieres, Only in America and Prudence and the Chief, to be absolute delights and I suspect you will too.
Add on Chris Malone-improved sound for everything including Room 222 (which also has one extra cue), Nick Quarry, and A Girl Named Sooner (the FSM editions of which are a couple decades old now) and I think this set is a must-buy, from arguably Goldsmith's best period of output.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Oct 21, 2022 - 9:19 AM
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By: |
Hurdy Gurdy
(Member)
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I would like the time to listen to podcasts, Yavar, but there always seems to be other things to do and listen to, which, first and foremost, is the music I buy on CD (film music and otherwise).
I think I've only ever listened to one podcast and that was your one which featured THE DON IS DEAD, which did admittedly turn me around on that score and compelled me to give it another chance (I'd never liked it from the film/via my tape).
I love the Intrada CD, but that was a full-on premiere release.
Apart from the Fox Box, I also have ROOM 222, NICK QUARRY and A GIRL NAMED SOONER on CD, so improved sound notwithstanding, it would be about 40 minutes of new material*
Which is a fair shout, but against the new releases that keep-a-comin, it's a balancing act and sometimes 'on a whim' decisions which result in any future purchases.
But I look forward to you and Graham waxing lyrical about this release, in the very near future.
*And I've read some of that is his Jewish music, which I'm not a huge fan of, unless he's ramping it up like MASADA.
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Kev's trying to keep his country together with NO HELP FROM ANY OF YOU, can't you people see this and send him one of these sets???
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I would like the time to listen to podcasts, Yavar, but there always seems to be other things to do and listen to, which, first and foremost, is the music I buy on CD (film music and otherwise).
I think I've only ever listened to one podcast and that was your one which featured THE DON IS DEAD, which did admittedly turn me around on that score and compelled me to give it another chance (I'd never liked it from the film/via my tape). I love the Intrada CD, but that was a full-on premiere release.
I'm honored to hear that! But if you found that one podcast so worthwhile, maybe it'd be worth trying another one? This release has two premieres *and* two significant expansions.
And I've read some of that is his Jewish music, which I'm not a huge fan of, unless he's ramping it up like MASADA.
Well, less than two minutes of the 40+ minutes of “new” music is from Only in America... alas, no music-only sources survived for the score and this music was all that was salvageable from the combined film audio. But if you want to get a quick sense of it we open our podcast episode with one of the cues, and I'm sure you'll immediately be able to tell whether it's something you like or not. (And even if you don't like it, it's a minute and 57 seconds of this new release.)
Do you like Goldsmith western scores? Prudence and the Chief is fortunately the complete score -- about 15 minutes.
Yavar
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Maybe a ranking of the seven projects represented herein would help generate some conversation?
Well, I'm super interested to hear what other folks here think about this diverse set of wonderful scores, so I guess I'm going to get the ball rolling here with my own ranking of favorites released on this set... I look forward to Graham keeping that ball rolling, and hope that others like Thierry, Stephen, Erik, Shaun, Cody, Steven, Michael, Jason, Dylan, chriss, merlyn, moolik, Dr. Nigel Channing, and of course The Mutant chime in later!
I myself will write descriptions of why I rank each thing where it is, but if anyone doesn't feel like going to that trouble I'd still be curious just too see you put up a simple ranking from 1-7!
Oh, and I'm also going to use this opportunity to add the awesome custom cover art that FSM user "steffromuk" designed for each of these seven projects, at the top of each entry of mine. Without further ado, here's my pick for #1 FAVORITE thing on this packed 2 CD set:
1. A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN (1974) -- This was a TV movie that was apparently also intended as a backdoor pilot for a potential series (think what The Homecoming was for The Waltons) which never came to be. Alas that it's never been commercially released on a home video format because it's really quite a nice film. But Goldsmith treated it with real class and delicacy; I think he knew how much the book was beloved and took his responsibilities even more seriously than usual. This is "gentle Jerry" in the vein of something like A Patch of Blue... only this score, while occasionally troubled, doesn't have that score's moments of real darkness/pain. There's not a single cue of of these 16 which I *ever* feel tempted to skip; it's gorgeous all the way through, I love every second, and there are many highlights among the previously unreleased music: "My Favorite Day", "Morning Chores", "A New Address", "The Cake", "A New Child"...
Yeah, I've been waiting for a complete stereo edition for years, and IMO it's worth the price of the new set on its own.
Next up, we have:
2. PRUDENCE AND THE CHIEF (1970) -- I think this will be the biggest surprise on the set for most people, because folks already had some idea of how good A Tree Grows was, from the Fox Box. Thanks to generous FSM board member Ron Burbella, we at The Goldsmith Odyssey podcast have had a B&W film transfer of this rare unsold (but not unaired!) western TV pilot for several years now. I adore Goldsmith westerns, and I really liked the score when I originally heard it in context, and always found it to be a fascinating missing link between two of my favorite Goldsmith western scores, Rio Conchos and Rio Lobo. But even with the nice thematic links to those two scores, this 15 minute complete score reveals a lot of very unique and cool material which particularly stood out to me in the superior sound quality available on LLL's release compared to the film rip we got: the bit of synth that opens "The Village" before we get a nice bit of brass and percussion, the badass 70s brass riff that surprises in "The Visitors" after the really lovely opening, or the unique propulsive ostinato that runs through my very favorite cue in the score, "Missing Child".
Nearly tied with it in my affection is another significant expansion, going from less than 16 minutes of music on the Varese Goldsmith at Fox box set to almost 34 minutes at the beginning of this set... and for this we have TWO nice and different custom covers made by steffromuk so take your pick!
3. ANNA AND THE KING (1972) -- This with A Tree Grows in Brooklyn was always a highlight of the Varese box for me, and ironically they were the two that took the longest to see expansion. And in both cases it's a whole new experience! The pilot score is I suppose the least changed, since it was represented by about 8 minutes, over half of the Varese Anna suite (but four minutes shorter than this new presentation). But over two minutes of that was a cue we now know was outright reused from The Sand Pebbles -- "My Secret" was simply re-recorded for this new series, along with some other pre-existing Fox film cues, as they did on other TV projects of the era like Lost in Space! So it really was only about 6 minutes of original music Jerry wrote for the pilot that Varese released. Debuting here is Jerry's original pilot version of his main title, noticeably different from -- and in my opinion better than -- the regular series version which Varese included. The other *truly* significant addition here is the majority of a highlight cue: "March of the Royal Children" now properly runs 2:14 and features an impressive full development of Jerry's theme instead of being very awkwardly truncated less than a minute in! The other added pilot music is more minor, but still nice to have as it still fleshes out the musical story/journey. "A New House" in particular is a really lovely close to the pilot score and I'm glad it's been restored to make it feel like there's an actual conclusion.
"Anna's Romance" is a fine further exploration of the sound world and themes Goldsmith established in the pilot score, with a bit of a different tone and some new ideas interspersed throughout its brief runtime of just under 6 minutes (still about twice as much music as the two cues Varese included on their Fox Box suite!) Goldsmith constructs a new romantic version of his main theme which is practically a new theme in itself. Even though it's the most brief of Goldsmith's three scores for the series (perhaps the episode was partially tracked?) it's a lovely score with its own identity, allowed to shine now as a little gem in complete form. My favorite cue is the fairly brief but lovely new development of his main series theme in "A Great Person". And right after it is a unique "King Waltz" that sounds like a music box; just gorgeous!
"The Chimes" I think is the score on this entire set that's going to blow a lot of people's minds! It sounds pretty much NOTHING like the other two Anna and the King scores Jerry wrote! Less than three minutes of the score (only a single cue, "You Lose") was included on the Fox Box, but on this release it's revealed as the longest Goldsmith wrote for the series at over 13.5 minutes long -- which is about as much original Goldsmith Anna and the King music Varese included from the entire series on their Fox Box! And this score is one of the most unique things Goldsmith ever wrote, like sort of an aural fever dream, sometimes mystical/magical, sometimes vaguely threatening. There are parts of other Goldsmith scores which sound a bit like it (maybe even some eerie parts of Planet of the Apes!) but this sustains a cool eerie mood throughout almost the entire runtime. This ended up being my friend David Lichty's favorite thing on the box set and I can understand why. It's kinda trippy and very, very cool! The previously-released "You Lose" is now revealed as the end of a vaguely creepy journey, and thus has a lot more impact which benefits from the added context of the preceding 10.5 minutes.
NOTE: The short 38 second cue "A Practical Woman" which Varese put at the end of their Anna and the King suite was supposedly from this score, but is omitted from this new release because it was *actually* a (strangely anachronistic-sounding for Anna and the King) Richard LaSalle cue written for an episode of Room 222 recorded around the same time at Fox ("You Don't Know Me, He Said")! Credit goes to Neil Bulk and Jon Burlingame for working out the details: This cue coincidentally had the same title as Goldsmith's final short button cue for this episode, which was alas misplaced and couldn't be located for this release. But hearing that cue in the episode, it's frankly a very minor loss, as it really was just a short and simple "everything's all right" capper cue which didn't connect much with the rest of this unique score.
I'll make a follow up post later ranking the remaining four titles on this set.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Oct 21, 2022 - 3:11 PM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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I got this set uncharacteristically late for me for a Goldsmith release, but I've finally had a listen, and I think it's terrific. If you have (most of) these scores (mostly) before, do you need it? Well, that's up to you. Personally, I wouldn't be without it. (I will now see if I can sell my finally-obsolete Goldsmith at 20th Century Fox box set.)
For me, the extra "Anna and the King" is the highlight. As Yavar suggests, I was not expecting anything like "The Chimes," and it's really striking!
The sound is significantly improved throughout – more dynamic, more present, an obvious difference across probably all of the scores (a few I hadn't listened to in a while, so I can't say for sure about those).
"A Girl Named Sooner" will probably never be a favorite of mine, but I'm enjoying the hell out of all the others. Overall, it's a great representation of Goldsmith's myriad talents. Thanks to all involved for making this happen!
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I think A Girl Named Sooner is going to end up as my #4 pick so I'm curious why you don't care for it, Schiffy; is it just that you're allergic to harmonica? Because there's some gorgeous stuff here IMO and I was really glad this new release prompted me to revisit it after admittedly not listening to the FSM release very much, where it's rather overshadowed by the more catchy and memorable The Flim-Flam Man.
It is the most substantial score on this set besides Anna and the King (which was technically three scores), and even if it isn't quite as sublime as A Tree Grows in Brooklyn I still think it's pretty lovely.
Yavar
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I haven't had a lot of time for music lately, nor even for a full discussion right now; yet as it happens, Yavar and Schiffy, A GIRL NAMED SOONER (especially with the improved sound which I had hoped this LLL release would offer over the older FSM issue) is my own #1 pick out of this splendid new Goldsmith set, while the sublime and delicate A TREE GROWS IN BROOKLYN is in solid second place.
PRUDENCE AND THE CHIEF I still find a bit disorienting, with the excellent theme and material so familiar from the later RIO LOBO heard here in such different dramatic contexts. But collectively, those three scores are why I have returned to this set's disc 2 multiple times while unfairly limiting the first disc to a single play so far.
Forgive me, Yavar, but later this weekend I'll try to apply specifics to my enthusiasm.
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Very cool Steven -- I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the rest (particularly the substantially expanded Anna and the King), though I think I agree with you that Disc 2 is the stronger of the two!
Speaking of Anna and the King, I decided to play around with my own track order a bit in iTunes, for (IMO) a superior listening experience. Here's what I did, for anyone interested:
1. I created a chronological order for Goldsmith's original Pilot score -- to do this:
a) I swapped the first two cues, so that the unique Pilot version of the Main Title follows the cold-open cue "Anna Arrives", as it does in the episode itself. I just think Anna Arrives is a great opener, and leads into the Main Title well.
b) I moved "My Secret", the reused Sand Pebbles cue which was freshly recorded for this series' music library, from the bonus section of this release back to where the Varese Fox Box had it, after "March of the Royal Children". Maybe I just got too used to the Varese suite over the past couple decades, but even if Goldsmith didn't write it for this series I missed it in the sequence where it had previously been, and it does appear as part of the episode score in context there.
2. I thought to myself... Goldsmith made three different recordings of the Main Title, as well as scoring three episodes of the series. So why not move the "library version" from the bonus section to earlier, with "The Chimes", so that each of the three episode scores is with a version of the Main Title? (This also avoids the feeling of repetition at the end of the program by having the library version of the Main Title follow the End Titles.)
This way, there's no bonus section at the end at all (just the End Titles, of which there was only one version), and it feels like everything has a home, of sorts. Anyhow, I like it better this way and I'm curious if anyone else feels inclined to try what I did, and see if they like it better too...
Yavar
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Once again I am confused about the perception of A Girl Named Sooner being anything other than attractive! Do you feel similarly to Schiffy about it, Basil? Or is it something else that bothers you about it (like the harmonica?)
Yavar
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