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 Posted:   Jun 15, 2023 - 2:15 PM   
 By:   Lush-Romantic Strings   (Member)

I think after the BS with Chris MacQuarrie just abandoning his talented collaborator and longtime friend Joe Kramer, for Lorne Balfe… yeah maybe we are all a bit sensitive. I’ll keep an open mind about the score but I can’t help being upset.

Yavar


Completely agree, Yavar. Creative partnerships are a very precious thing!.

MacQuarrie and Kraemer had been working together for many years at that point as well, right?. In that particular case, it hurt even more, because not only the professional relationship ended, the friendship did as well.

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2023 - 2:32 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Yeah, it seems so. Seems like MacQuarrie just sort of… ghosted him.

At least Shyamalan and JNH are still very friendly with each other even though I very much lament the end of their collaboration. I really really hope Doyle and Branagh reunite after this just as Elfman and Burton did after Ed Wood.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2023 - 3:45 PM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Maybe old Kenny just fancies Hurdy and wants to get his leg over.
He's got lots of form with previous collaborators!!

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2023 - 4:31 AM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

There is another possibility.

Maybe, just maybe, Branagh himself wanted to try something different musically for this installment, and that´s it. He doesn´t neccesarily had to argue with a close friend in the process. Perhaps Branagh and Doyle are ok, reading this, and thinking film score fans are way too dramatic.


Just a thought.


I appreciate that it would be a more pleasant scenario to imagine, but...

I just don't believe that's at all possible.

Branagh didn't want to try something different musically for a comic book movie (Thor), a huge studio spy movie (Jack Ryan) or his Disney movies (Cinderella and Artemis Fowl). I'm even willing to bet, knowing the film industry, that he had to fight for Doyle to score at least one or two of those. I find it almost inconceivable that he'd have the sudden desire for a new sound on the third installment in a successful franchise that Doyle has already established a style for.

The only films he's done without Doyle over their nearly forty years working together have had little or no original score (Peter's Friends, In the Bleak Midwinter, The Magic Flute, Belfast). The only film he's ever done with any true score not by Doyle is Midwinter, and that has just a solo guitar score, consisting mostly of variations of the titular hymn, and was (I believe) recorded while Doyle was busy doing Sense and Sensibility for Emma Thompson.

There's a story here. Maybe we'll learn it someday, maybe we won't.

I just hope the story is nothing dramatic, and that they reunite on whatever Branagh's next film is (he has nothing announced as director, just a movie he's acting in with Ryan Reynolds).

They're up there with Williams/Spielberg among my favorite composer/director collaborations, their work together has given us some truly towering masterpieces. I sincerely hope they work together for many more years. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2023 - 1:11 PM   
 By:   Lush-Romantic Strings   (Member)

There is another possibility.

Maybe, just maybe, Branagh himself wanted to try something different musically for this installment, and that´s it. He doesn´t neccesarily had to argue with a close friend in the process. Perhaps Branagh and Doyle are ok, reading this, and thinking film score fans are way too dramatic.


Just a thought.


I appreciate that it would be a more pleasant scenario to imagine, but...

I just don't believe that's at all possible.

Branagh didn't want to try something different musically for a comic book movie (Thor), a huge studio spy movie (Jack Ryan) or his Disney movies (Cinderella and Artemis Fowl). I'm even willing to bet, knowing the film industry, that he had to fight for Doyle to score at least one or two of those. I find it almost inconceivable that he'd have the sudden desire for a new sound on the third installment in a successful franchise that Doyle has already established a style for.

The only films he's done without Doyle over their nearly forty years working together have had little or no original score (Peter's Friends, In the Bleak Midwinter, The Magic Flute, Belfast). The only film he's ever done with any true score not by Doyle is Midwinter, and that has just a solo guitar score, consisting mostly of variations of the titular hymn, and was (I believe) recorded while Doyle was busy doing Sense and Sensibility for Emma Thompson.

There's a story here. Maybe we'll learn it someday, maybe we won't.

I just hope the story is nothing dramatic, and that they reunite on whatever Branagh's next film is (he has nothing announced as director, just a movie he's acting in with Ryan Reynolds).

They're up there with Williams/Spielberg among my favorite composer/director collaborations, their work together has given us some truly towering masterpieces. I sincerely hope they work together for many more years. smile


Great post. Yeah, I agree with you, hence my original reaction. I just don´t want to believe in the possibility of this two ever falling out, I guess.

Perhaps, as a previous post in this thread say, Branagh was "forced" by the studio to make changes in this one (look at the tone of the trailer compared with the previous two movies), as the "Nile" box office was quite bad.

Because the other possibility, as you say, is that Branagh and Doyle are no longer friends because they argued about something substantial. And I dont want to even begin to think that.

PS: Doyle couldn´t do "Midwinter" but has a very funny cameo in the film.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2023 - 2:39 PM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

PS: Doyle couldn´t do "Midwinter" but has a very funny cameo in the film.

Very true, he's great in that casting montage. smile

The entire film is an underappreciated gem. I think it mainly works for those who have some experience in theater and some experience with Shakespeare, but I just think it's brilliant on every level.

When Branagh writes his own scripts, he has better material than almost anything he's made with other writers. I wish he would write more of his films. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2023 - 3:31 PM   
 By:   Lush-Romantic Strings   (Member)

PS: Doyle couldn´t do "Midwinter" but has a very funny cameo in the film.

Very true, he's great in that casting montage. smile

The entire film is an underappreciated gem. I think it mainly works for those who have some experience in theater and some experience with Shakespeare, but I just think it's brilliant on every level.

When Branagh writes his own scripts, he has better material than almost anything he's made with other writers. I wish he would write more of his films. smile


Agreed. Although according to Frank Darabont Branagh rewrote (uncredited, for legal reasons) almost all of Mary´s Shelley Frankenstein final script. Love that film in its mad intensity, it´s like Mary Shelley´s meets Shakespeare.

As for his recent projects, All Is True is wonderful.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2023 - 5:30 PM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

PS: Doyle couldn´t do "Midwinter" but has a very funny cameo in the film.

Very true, he's great in that casting montage. smile

The entire film is an underappreciated gem. I think it mainly works for those who have some experience in theater and some experience with Shakespeare, but I just think it's brilliant on every level.

When Branagh writes his own scripts, he has better material than almost anything he's made with other writers. I wish he would write more of his films. smile


Agreed. Although according to Frank Darabont Branagh rewrote (uncredited, for legal reasons) almost all of Mary´s Shelley Frankenstein final script. Love that film in its mad intensity, it´s like Mary Shelley´s meets Shakespeare.

As for his recent projects, All Is True is wonderful.


Totally agree. All Is True was also shockingly underappreciated. I saw it both times it was released, first when it was released at Christmas for Oscar consideration, and then again when it got a wider release about six months later, with Branagh doing a Q&A.

I've always meant to read the original Darabont script and see how different it really is from Branagh's completed film. I'm with you in the vocal minority loving Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, I think people misunderstood its operatic insanity as an accident and thought it was just over the top, but it's entirely intentional and stunning.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 1:42 AM   
 By:   Lush-Romantic Strings   (Member)

PS: Doyle couldn´t do "Midwinter" but has a very funny cameo in the film.

Very true, he's great in that casting montage. smile

The entire film is an underappreciated gem. I think it mainly works for those who have some experience in theater and some experience with Shakespeare, but I just think it's brilliant on every level.

When Branagh writes his own scripts, he has better material than almost anything he's made with other writers. I wish he would write more of his films. smile


Agreed. Although according to Frank Darabont Branagh rewrote (uncredited, for legal reasons) almost all of Mary´s Shelley Frankenstein final script. Love that film in its mad intensity, it´s like Mary Shelley´s meets Shakespeare.

As for his recent projects, All Is True is wonderful.


Totally agree. All Is True was also shockingly underappreciated. I saw it both times it was released, first when it was released at Christmas for Oscar consideration, and then again when it got a wider release about six months later, with Branagh doing a Q&A.

I've always meant to read the original Darabont script and see how different it really is from Branagh's completed film. I'm with you in the vocal minority loving Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, I think people misunderstood its operatic insanity as an accident and thought it was just over the top, but it's entirely intentional and stunning.



Stuning is a perfect word to define Branagh´s Frankenstein.

And what a score!. Perhaps Doyle magnum opus.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 2:07 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

PS: Doyle couldn´t do "Midwinter" but has a very funny cameo in the film.

Very true, he's great in that casting montage. smile

The entire film is an underappreciated gem. I think it mainly works for those who have some experience in theater and some experience with Shakespeare, but I just think it's brilliant on every level.

When Branagh writes his own scripts, he has better material than almost anything he's made with other writers. I wish he would write more of his films. smile


Agreed. Although according to Frank Darabont Branagh rewrote (uncredited, for legal reasons) almost all of Mary´s Shelley Frankenstein final script. Love that film in its mad intensity, it´s like Mary Shelley´s meets Shakespeare.

As for his recent projects, All Is True is wonderful.


Totally agree. All Is True was also shockingly underappreciated. I saw it both times it was released, first when it was released at Christmas for Oscar consideration, and then again when it got a wider release about six months later, with Branagh doing a Q&A.

I've always meant to read the original Darabont script and see how different it really is from Branagh's completed film. I'm with you in the vocal minority loving Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, I think people misunderstood its operatic insanity as an accident and thought it was just over the top, but it's entirely intentional and stunning.


Totally agreed.

Weirdly, Coppola’s operatic Dracula was welcomed the same year. I guess Branagh was just used as a punching bag by critics because he had been celebrated for too long. And the reviewers just love a big budget project to tear down.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 2:19 AM   
 By:   Lush-Romantic Strings   (Member)

PS: Doyle couldn´t do "Midwinter" but has a very funny cameo in the film.

Very true, he's great in that casting montage. smile

The entire film is an underappreciated gem. I think it mainly works for those who have some experience in theater and some experience with Shakespeare, but I just think it's brilliant on every level.

When Branagh writes his own scripts, he has better material than almost anything he's made with other writers. I wish he would write more of his films. smile


Agreed. Although according to Frank Darabont Branagh rewrote (uncredited, for legal reasons) almost all of Mary´s Shelley Frankenstein final script. Love that film in its mad intensity, it´s like Mary Shelley´s meets Shakespeare.

As for his recent projects, All Is True is wonderful.


Totally agree. All Is True was also shockingly underappreciated. I saw it both times it was released, first when it was released at Christmas for Oscar consideration, and then again when it got a wider release about six months later, with Branagh doing a Q&A.

I've always meant to read the original Darabont script and see how different it really is from Branagh's completed film. I'm with you in the vocal minority loving Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, I think people misunderstood its operatic insanity as an accident and thought it was just over the top, but it's entirely intentional and stunning.


Totally agreed.

Weirdly, Coppola’s operatic Dracula was welcomed the same year. I guess Branagh was just used as a punching bag by critics because he had been celebrated for too long. And the reviewers just love a big budget project to tear down.


Coppola´s Dracula was released in 92. Branagh´s Frankenstein (produced by Coppola) in 94.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 2:23 AM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

Stuning is a perfect word to define Branagh´s Frankenstein.

And what a score!. Perhaps Doyle magnum opus.


If you have the ability to watch it, you should check out the new 4K UHD Blu-Ray of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.

It's a gorgeous remaster, and the film looks better than it ever has before.

Here are comparison caps between the old Blu-Ray and the new 4K Blu-Ray:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=17525&d2=17527&s1=195834&s2=195912&i=5&l=0

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 2:26 AM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

I guess Branagh was just used as a punching bag by critics because he had been celebrated for too long. And the reviewers just love a big budget project to tear down.

I think the biggest problem with the reviews was the the critics weren't familiar with the novel, and didn't realize how faithful Branagh's film was to it, in all its weird narrative choices. Aside from one single bold plot change during the finale (which I think works quite well), it's incredibly close to the book.

However, it's nothing like the older movies, which are really nothing like the book. I think critics expected something like the old black-and-white film, and were shocked by what they got, without realizing they were getting the novel, almost word-for-word.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 2:27 AM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

Coppola´s Dracula was released in 92. Branagh´s Frankenstein (produced by Coppola) in 94.

Yep, the Branagh film was Sony's attempt to cash in on the massive success of Bram Stoker's Dracula, and Coppola's name was prominently featured in advertising. It was almost like they wanted to create a Coppola cinematic horror universe, decades before that was a thing.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 2:42 AM   
 By:   Lush-Romantic Strings   (Member)

Stuning is a perfect word to define Branagh´s Frankenstein.

And what a score!. Perhaps Doyle magnum opus.


If you have the ability to watch it, you should check out the new 4K UHD Blu-Ray of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.

It's a gorgeous remaster, and the film looks better than it ever has before.

Here are comparison caps between the old Blu-Ray and the new 4K Blu-Ray:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=17525&d2=17527&s1=195834&s2=195912&i=5&l=0


I´m from Spain, and so far Frankenstein in UHD has only been released by Arrow in the UK.

However, I got lucky. Apple, in its Spain Itunes Store, sells the film in 4K with Dolby Vision. So we bought it there (via an Apple TV 4K). We also were able to grab All Is True in 4K this way. That one wasn´t even released theatrically in my country!.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 2:49 AM   
 By:   Lush-Romantic Strings   (Member)

Coppola´s Dracula was released in 92. Branagh´s Frankenstein (produced by Coppola) in 94.

Yep, the Branagh film was Sony's attempt to cash in on the massive success of Bram Stoker's Dracula, and Coppola's name was prominently featured in advertising. It was almost like they wanted to create a Coppola cinematic horror universe, decades before that was a thing.


In fact, The Invisible Man was next, but Frankenstein box office put an end to that.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 3:32 AM   
 By:   jamesluckard   (Member)

I´m from Spain, and so far Frankenstein in UHD has only been released by Arrow in the UK.

However, I got lucky. Apple, in its Spain Itunes Store, sells the film in 4K with Dolby Vision. So we bought it there (via an Apple TV 4K). We also were able to grab All Is True in 4K this way. That one wasn´t even released theatrically in my country!.


UHD discs are regionless. smile Arrow released it separately in the US and UK. I bought the American one. Either one would work in Spain. smile

I've found that 4K digital versions aren't always the same, newest masters used on discs. I bought My Best Friend's Wedding, another 90s Sony title, in 4K digitally, and then got the 4K UHD disc, and found the disc had an entirely different, much better video master.

I have All is True on Blu-Ray. My understanding is that a BD is sometimes roughly equal to a 4K digital version in many ways, because the digital versions are so compressed. Good to know it's in 4K digitally, though, thanks! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 5:31 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)


Coppola´s Dracula was released in 92. Branagh´s Frankenstein (produced by Coppola) in 94.


Correct, thank you.

Still, I wonder: critics loved Coppola‘s approach, but hated Branagh doing basically the same heightened theatrical style (despite Branagh working with a much better script).

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 6:31 AM   
 By:   Lush-Romantic Strings   (Member)


Coppola´s Dracula was released in 92. Branagh´s Frankenstein (produced by Coppola) in 94.


Correct, thank you.

Still, I wonder: critics loved Coppola‘s approach, but hated Branagh doing basically the same heightened theatrical style (despite Branagh working with a much better script).


Yeah, although perhaps the film also suffered because of the focus of the press on Branagh´s private life (the affair with Bonham Carter and the subsequent divorce from Thompson).

Or, as you said in your previous post, maybe there was a little bit of resentment over this young guy from a working family in Belfast that pretty much made himself, and all his previous films had fare pretty well.

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2023 - 7:19 AM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)


Still, I wonder: critics loved Coppola‘s approach, but hated Branagh doing basically the same heightened theatrical style (despite Branagh working with a much better script).


While I really love both of these films, I think the easiest conclusion to come with this question is that Coppola did it first and better. And according to both screenwriters of this Frankenstein movie, Branagh was very unfaithful to their words and what they had put on the script. While both films are of heightened theater and camp, Coppola's is almost pure cinema. It's techniques and design probably rewarded such a viewing in a big theater. I was unfortunately too young to see it in theaters at the time, but I think that it visually presents a dense experience while, as good as it is, the Branagh movie never can match.

 
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