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 Posted:   Sep 6, 2023 - 9:41 AM   
 By:   governor   (Member)

Rare 1982 James Horner radio interview about Star Trek II:

https://www.lukaskendall.com/post/james-horner-rare-1982-interview


thanks LK, you made my day

 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2023 - 11:01 AM   
 By:   rdj252   (Member)

I find the lead actor bland as cardboard and if I wanted a dark depressing Star Wars, well I don't!

I don't find it depressing at all, though yes, the stakes are palpable. I don't think I'd want it to be my first Star Wars, or the only Star Wars, but what I love about it is that it takes so many things that are unsaid in all the movies and treats them as real life. It's not as simple as good and evil, though there are definitely good people and evil people. The Empire is a cruel, crushing bureaucracy, their officers motivated by fear and an often sadistic thirst for power. The Rebellion is scattered and working in the shadows, they don’t even trust each other, but some are trying to goad the Empire into further cruelty, hoping that will motivate more people to their side. And the Imperial Senate is a dying body of plutocrats who speak politely but whose every statement has a second meaning.

Sure, there are almost no droids and only fleeting glimpses of aliens or the occasional Stormtrooper and TIE fighter. But to me, it was so smart, literate, well acted, and beautifully produced. If you don't like Diego Luna… well, that's your prerogative, of course. But I found him terrific.


I may give it a go again sometime in the future. I'm all for smart, intelligent Sci Fi, but again it just isn't Star Wars for me. I don't go to McDonalds for a Whopper if that makes any sense.


I couldn't get past the first two episodes. Nothing interesting was happening, and I can't stand Diego Luna. Tried it again, and watched, I think, two more episodes (maybe 3). Still bored. Way too over dramatic, no characters that are likable and nothing to care about. The lead villain also reminded me of a person I work with that is a kiss ass, selfish and all about advancing themselves without any actual experience. Where that should make me want to see this character fail, it actually made me less interested in the series. The fact that I can't, even while watching it, remember any of the characters' names says a lot too. I even loved Rogue One. For me it's just another 21st century tv show that's full of itself, takes itself too seriously, vastly overrated and unwatchable (because of all the reasons listed above). Maybe I'll give it a third try, but I doubt it. Not star Wars for me.

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 7:32 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Speaking of which...the most interesting thing is what is not here: Horner’s English accent!

Yeah, he sounds like a regular guy here, he sounds good. He didn't just adopt a near-English accent later, but also his speaking voice became cloyingly gentle and effeminate. I would guess he was one of those people whose speech, and probably laugh, are highly malleable, and susceptible to the influence of his environment. I was like that in high school, my laugh in particular.

I've gotten the impression that, later in life, Horner was an introvert who stayed home a lot and spoke mostly to his wife. Hmm. Maybe he ended up sounding like her.


Many thanks to David Schwartz for preserving and sharing these priceless recordings!

May the Schwartz be with you. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 7:39 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Andor is highly reviewed and it is a good show, by any metric. It may not be your cup of tea, it is, for certain, not kiddie Lucas Star Wars, at all. As Shiffy said, no light sabers, no real space battles, no storm troopers, only one kind-of cute robot. It has quite a bit less action than most Star Wars, and it is almost entirely planet bound, and I think that also throws people off.

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 7:45 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Andor is highly reviewed and it is a good show, by any metric. It may not be your cup of tea, it is, for certain, not kiddie Lucas Star Wars, at all. As Shiffy said, no light sabers, no real space battles, no storm troopers, only one kind-of cute robot. It has quite a bit less action than most Star Wars, and it is almost entirely planet bound, and I think that also throws people off.


Why even use the Star Wars name for that? I haven't seen Andor, but it sounds like a narrative you could adjust only slightly, and set it in 19th century Mexico. And the lead actor is a Mexican, so you'd be off and running. All I can think is that Andor was made as an ostensible "Star Wars" so it would rake in money.

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 8:44 AM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

Andor is highly reviewed and it is a good show, by any metric. It may not be your cup of tea, it is, for certain, not kiddie Lucas Star Wars, at all. As Shiffy said, no light sabers, no real space battles, no storm troopers, only one kind-of cute robot. It has quite a bit less action than most Star Wars, and it is almost entirely planet bound, and I think that also throws people off.


Why even use the Star Wars name for that? I haven't seen Andor, but it sounds like a narrative you could adjust only slightly, and set it in 19th century Mexico. And the lead actor is a Mexican, so you'd be off and running. All I can think is that Andor was made as an ostensible "Star Wars" so it would rake in money.


Because Andor is still very much a Star Wars show. Although it scaled back some of the hallmarks of the flashier aspects of Star Wars, it dives into the themes of the films. The portrayal of the Imperial buearacracy, particularly the ISB, shows a far more cruel and sinister Empire than the Death Star blowing up a planet ever could. Also, the risks that those who choose to resist take in a changed society where anyone could betray you, makes those who do resist all the more heroic even if they have to make some difficult decisions that may hurt innocent people. For me it is a fantastic show that does a deep dive into the Star Wars universe in a way the movies never could. This is what distinguishes Andor from the other Star Wars shows and why it is one of the most enjoyable shows I have seen in a long time.

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 8:48 AM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


Mark your calendars! HUGE CD ESTATE SALE coming Tuesday, September 19th!

https://www.lukaskendall.com/post/huge-estate-cd-sale-september-19-at-10am-pacific

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 9:00 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Why even use the Star Wars name for that?

As Michael Scorefan has already said, it's absolutely a Star Wars show, and it rewards knowledge of the saga without relying on it. It simply takes established Star Wars lore and looks at it from a perspective that no project yet had explored in the way it does. I mean, one of the Imperial officers is a "character" first seen in 1977, in the first film, where he had no lines. It's not non-geeky! It doesn't matter if you don't know that character's origin, but it's there if you know.

But I remember when "Star Trek: The Next Generation" debuted, and certain segments of fandom insisted that without Kirk, it wasn't Star Trek, they should just call it something else. And then when "Deep Space Nine" came out, it changed to without the Enterprise, it wasn't Star Trek, they should just call it something else. And on and on.

"Andor" is absolutely Star Wars. Certainly, I respect that other people don't love it the way I do. But it's silly to suggest it's something else.

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 10:21 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

As someone who isn't a fan of Andor, I just want to chime in and say it is an absolutely valid take on Star Wars, and it is refreshing to have a Star Wars property diverge from the usual in the story it tells and how it tells it. As with DS9 in the Star Trek universe, it's great to have a different take on the environment.

That said, I found it mostly tedious. Reminds me of a time Schiffy wrote elsewhere about how some of the new TV shows have an idea that's worth a few episodes but take a dozen. I felt that way too often in Andor, because I could see where each arc was going early on - the storytelling length didn't build drama for me.

Also, I didn't find the dialogue as smart or effective as others have. Seemed like it was trying for something like John Le Carre's original Tinker Tailor..../Smiley's People mini series... but just didn't scale that height mostly.

Except: I could watch Stellan Skarsgård and Forest Whitaker argue about rebellion theory and practice all day - I mean it - I wish one of the episodes had been just a two-hander with them. And there are other things I remember very fondly - so glad Andy Serkis got a strong role in a show without motion capture - he was one of the best things in it.

Diego Luna is hard to like here because the character is supposed to be hard to like. He's an anti-hero growing towards becoming a hero, not necessarily fun to watch, I think, as the show is a slow burn and not what you ordinarily expect from the franchise. But I think it will be stronger and easier to see where it's going on a rewatch.

My wife liked it a lot more than I did (though not as much on reflection, but maybe I wore her down with my take). And I'm definitely going to watch it again - I may just not have been in the mood for what it was doing the first time.

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

The first 4-5 episodes of Andor are certainly a slow burn. My wife resisted liking it at first. She was mainly invested in the Imperial characters (Dedra and "cereal boy", as she called him), and I think only continued watching with me because of them. But the prison arc with Andy Serkis absolutely blew her away, and cemented this as maybe her favorite Star Wars, ever. (And speaking for myself I was right there with her... for me this arc ties with The Empire Strikes Back as the best Star Wars has ever been on screen.)

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2023 - 1:43 PM   
 By:   jeffhall7   (Member)

Rare 1982 James Horner radio interview about Star Trek II:

https://www.lukaskendall.com/post/james-horner-rare-1982-interview


Thanks to you and of course David Schwarz.

 
 Posted:   Sep 9, 2023 - 9:49 AM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


Walking the picket line on Star Trek day: “Nobody—nobody—nobody—CHEKOV!!!”

https://www.lukaskendall.com/post/the-star-trek-picket

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2023 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


A “guest post” by Taylor White, remembering artist Brent Armstrong, whose CD collection we will start selling next Tuesday 9/19/23:

https://www.lukaskendall.com/post/remembering-brent-armstrong

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2023 - 10:04 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Andor is highly reviewed and it is a good show, by any metric. It may not be your cup of tea, it is, for certain, not kiddie Lucas Star Wars, at all. As Shiffy said, no light sabers, no real space battles, no storm troopers, only one kind-of cute robot. It has quite a bit less action than most Star Wars, and it is almost entirely planet bound, and I think that also throws people off.


Why even use the Star Wars name for that? I haven't seen Andor, but it sounds like a narrative you could adjust only slightly, and set it in 19th century Mexico. And the lead actor is a Mexican, so you'd be off and running. All I can think is that Andor was made as an ostensible "Star Wars" so it would rake in money.


Exactly! Its like Star Trek, which is Star Trek in name only now. Regardless if one is championing this series because its "Adult" is besides the point. Take the space battles, robots, Lightsabers, and The Force out of Star Wars: ANH and what do you have? Just some generic sci fi story.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2023 - 10:21 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Its like Star Trek, which is Star Trek in name only now.

Which has been said by various fans over the years about just about every new Star Trek show, starting at least with Next Generation. Whereas other fans embrace each new iteration, and some of us eventually come along (as I did with TNG, and DS9, and Disco).

Same with Andor - it won't meet some fans expectations or wants, but will happily satisfy others.

Saying it's not Star Wars typically means "It's not what I want from Star Wars" - which is fine. The cool thing is that the different products can satisfy some different audiences, and some of the same audience. Doesn't make it not, just makes it different.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2023 - 10:45 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Wow, for me Andor is the most Star Wars Star Wars that has ever Star Warsed. Instead of being about a space wizard/knight and his young apprentice rescuing a princess, it is actually about intergalactic WAR. It dives into the politics in a SMART way, unlike the prequels. It dives deeper into the actual Rebellion, how it grows, and who is behind it from the highest levels of the Senate to the lowliest Rebel contractor. It fleshes those characters out and shows their motivations, and how their own private rebellions feed into THE Rebellion.

And it also fleshes out the Empire and makes it both more human/real AND more terrifying than it has ever been before.

Yeah the first few episodes are a bit slow, but I can’t fathom anyone not loving the back half of the season if they appreciate any aspect of Star Wars besides laser sword fights. My god, Andy Serkis’s character alone. The ESSENCE of what Star Wars is and should be.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2023 - 10:52 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Its like Star Trek, which is Star Trek in name only now.

Which has been said by various fans over the years about just about every new Star Trek show, starting at least with Next Generation. Whereas other fans embrace each new iteration, and some of us eventually come along (as I did with TNG, and DS9, and Disco).

Same with Andor - it won't meet some fans expectations or wants, but will happily satisfy others.

Saying it's not Star Wars typically means "It's not what I want from Star Wars" - which is fine. The cool thing is that the different products can satisfy some different audiences, and some of the same audience. Doesn't make it not, just makes it different.


I'm not a NG fan but I never said it wasn't Star Trek. Nor did I say that about the other Star Trek series, well up until the streaming series. Star Trek at its core was an optimistic series about the future and working together to solve problems not a dystopian future where everyone was out for their own interest. Roddenberry would be the first to say the streaming series and those sh*tty Star Trek animated programs aren't Star Trek. If you need any proof read what his demands were for ST:TAS.
Again if you take out the original elements that makes a series unique then its just another generic program with a label slapped on it.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2023 - 11:11 AM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

Andor is highly reviewed and it is a good show, by any metric. It may not be your cup of tea, it is, for certain, not kiddie Lucas Star Wars, at all. As Shiffy said, no light sabers, no real space battles, no storm troopers, only one kind-of cute robot. It has quite a bit less action than most Star Wars, and it is almost entirely planet bound, and I think that also throws people off.

I like all of that, especially seeing behind the curtain of the Empire, which was really intriguing, but the biggest issue I had was the length of the series. I mentioned this before, maybe not here, but elsewhere, but the script was the biggest problem. There was just so much filler. So much wasted time. IMO, Andor didn't need to be 12 episodes long. All of this could have been told in 6. A lot of these Star Wars shows could be much, MUCH shorter as well. I mean, did we really need to watch what's his face eating space fruit loops every morning while his mother bitched him out constantly?

Having said that, the show was extremely well directed, it looked great, the cinematography was superb, and the acting was top-notch. Unfortunately, the script... more so the pacing of the series.... really let it down. The script needed a few more passes to tighten it all up. If it had done that, I might have liked it as much as some of you here who proclaim it to be the best thing since Empire. Personally, I think The Force Awakens, Rogue One and Mando Season 1 are near the greatness of the OT. Andor tried, and a lot of it was great but I was rather bored with about half of the show, which was a shame because when it was good, it was REALLY good!

-Erik-

PS - The score was awful!

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2023 - 11:17 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I am perplexed that a series that features the Empire, Rebel freedom fighters, the Imperial Senate, Coruscant, the building of (spoiler) the Death Star, Stormtroopers, Clone Troopers, TIE fighters, Mom Mothma, Saw Gerrera, and on and on could be somehow perceived as "not Star Wars."

It's like saying that The Empire Strikes Back is "not Star Wars" because it doesn't have Tatooine, a garbage compactor, Tarkin, and Jawas.

True, "Andor" does not feature every single thing that's ever been a part of the saga, but it sure as hell has a lot of them.

 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2023 - 4:25 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I'm not a NG fan but I never said it wasn't Star Trek. Nor did I say that about the other Star Trek series, well up until the streaming series. Star Trek at its core was an optimistic series about the future and working together to solve problems not a dystopian future where everyone was out for their own interest.

Just to clarify, Solium: I did not claim you said any of what I described about Star Trek fans, I made a point of saying various, some, etc. But the point is accurate whether every instance applies to you or not.

Also, the new Trek shows are still optimistic if less utopian, certainly not the dystopian trend so common these days. Just harder fought and more ambiguous - which is when hope is needed most, if you ask me.

(And I'm not saying they're better by any means, just that they share the same Trek DNA as all the properties have.)

PS Andor is Star Wars! I'm gonna make a bumper sticker, and I didn't even much like the show! wink

 
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