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You’re overthinking it. It’s woke cause it had girls.
No. It was “woke” because it rebooted Ghostbusters by replacing four male characters with four female characters. Conservatives hate that shit, especially if they’re white males. 
Oh and making manly Chris Hemsworth the ditzy sex object pissed them off too. (After Kate McKinnon I think he was easily the best part of the movie; the two of them were pretty much the only funny/fun elements in it, and seemed like they were having a blast in whatever movie they thought they were in.)
Yavar
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I hope it will be fantastic. But how can it be when two trilogies have already mined everything worthwhile about this story?
Because there are thousands of years of back story that take place before what we've seen. They are much more epic than what we've seen, but they were never fleshed out in the style of traditional novels.
But the conflicts are all the same. I know that in a time of never ending franchises this is what too many want to see. Only… the story of the ring(s) and the many quests and battles has been told.
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I hope it will be fantastic. But how can it be when two trilogies have already mined everything worthwhile about this story?
Because there are thousands of years of back story that take place before what we've seen. They are much more epic than what we've seen, but they were never fleshed out in the style of traditional novels.
But the conflicts are all the same. I know that in a time of never ending franchises this is what too many want to see. Only… the story of the ring(s) and the many quests and battles has been told.
This is what I was saying as well where it runs the risk of just being bland Dungeons & Dragons content that capitalizes on the "Lord Of The Rings" brand for profit. The LOTR universe was built more or less to tell one primary story. Tolkien enjoyed the world-building and expanded the backstories a bit but overall it's a good example of how stories generally have a finite amount of interest. The LOTR universe is ultimately pointless if it's not serving the story that its creator built it for. You can do "Golden Girls" in Hobbiton except with aging hobbit women, or "Cheers" in Bree where ol' regulars swing on by the Prancing Pony and talk about their problems. They'd be entertaining and could have clever easter eggs... but what's the point of all that world-building?
We'll wait to see of course, but my guess is Peter Jackson has already dried up the well and this show won't have a lot to work with.
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The conflicts are all the same in every story..Revenge...Love..Intrigue...Fear...hope..hate...
Read SAVE THE CAT ( a screenwriters guide..or other books about the trade...Its always the same but different..Even PULP FICTION uses the same blueprint only in a different timeline)
I was referring to the particular story of the Rings and the Hobbits and Sauron and so on.
And judging from the trailer of this show it will use the same tropes and tell another variation on the small group of underdogs going on a quest to fight the power that will bring forth everything we already know from the later works.
Again, have fun with it, perfectly fine. But it will be like the umpteenth Marvel configuration: been there done that. A happy meal.
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Yeah I wish they hadn't shoehorned Hobbits (sorry, "Harfoots") into this. Tolkien was very clear in his writings that Hobbits kinda came out of nowhere to mess with Sauron during the Third Age. They didn't need to be in this story, and probably shouldn't be... but I'll keep and open mind and see how it plays out before really knocking it.
Yavar
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You can do "Golden Girls" in Hobbiton except with aging hobbit women, or "Cheers" in Bree where ol' regulars swing on by the Prancing Pony and talk about their problems. They'd be entertaining and could have clever easter eggs... but what's the point of all that world-building?
As someone who finally read all of The Silmarillion for the first time after trying ever since it came out in 1977, I for one would love to see Cheers in Bree!
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Posted: |
Jul 18, 2022 - 1:07 PM
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By: |
LeHah
(Member)
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runs the risk of just being bland Dungeons & Dragons content that capitalizes on the "Lord Of The Rings" brand for profit. The LOTR universe was built more or less to tell one primary story. Tolkien enjoyed the world-building and expanded the backstories a bit but overall it's a good example of how stories generally have a finite amount of interest.
On one hand, lets not forget that Tolkien started outlining a sequel to LOTR set decades after the story (Aragorn had passed on, IIRC) but that he found the idea of "another great war" to be profoundly depressing, as if it was just one continuous endless cycle of warfare. So he scrapped the idea and only notes are left behind. I think he was only a few weeks into the idea before killing it. So in and as far as that goes, he'd agree with you.
On the other hand, you could just not watch it. Star Wars - which was for the first 25 years of my life - the guiding media franchise that basically built my concepts of morality from the ground up - has become ankle deep greywater franchise more interested in silly nihilism for college freshman come home for holiday and trying to impress high school girls (TLJ) or just complete f*cking illiteracy (TFA, TRoS). So I've decided to walk away. Its not worth it. Life is too short. Hell, life is too short for this board sometimes.
If the LOTR Amazon series comes out and its good, great. If its bad, also great - but for someone else.
Once we decide to walk away and not get involved in the next great media event from the money laundering shell companies that are now any studio other than Disney (I'm pretty sure Paramount doesn't exist at this point), the better your life will be.
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On one hand, lets not forget that Tolkien started outlining a sequel to LOTR set decades after the story (Aragorn had passed on, IIRC) but that he found the idea of "another great war" to be profoundly depressing, as if it was just one continuous endless cycle of warfare. So he scrapped the idea and only notes are left behind. I think he was only a few weeks into the idea before killing it. So in and as far as that goes, he'd agree with you.
On the other hand, you could just not watch it.
Totally, and I'm not dwelling on it - the books and movies remain even if this show comes out, and this show doesn't invalidate any of those previous works (same with STAR WARS, as much as I didn't like the new films it doesn't mean the original trilogy is ruined).
My main interest is what this all says about culture and narrative arts now in general, and as Schiffy pointed out, mining IPs is the state of the industry. To me I view it as a battle between creative expression and commerce but at a level that is now so out of control it leaves very little room for alternatives. The cycle of war that you mention Tolkien pointed out is part of the problem with the new STAR WARS and with franchises in general, if they don't have a narrative point.
I mentioned this previously about "happily ever after" or "the end" in fairy tales being misunderstood, because here the moral or point of the tale becomes meaningless if the cycle continues. Would we fight this war if we know another war is going to come? Would we take this action now if we know it will get ruined and we have to do it all over again? I think there is enormous value and merit in stories with a clear beginning and ending and view streaming content as only leading society further into cycles of consumption addiction.
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Yes, but Tolkein wrote stuff along the lines of, "Hobbits existed but kept completely to themselves and the 'big folk' remained almost entirely unaware of them'" – I just don't see how that's going to work with this new show, where I feel like they've been included because people love Hobbits, but either they're not going to have a real impact on the story (why include them?) -OR- they're somehow going to be integral to the story, which messes up the whole Hobbit situation in The Lord of the Rings... when it's completely shocking and unexpected that they are the ones to end up movers and shakers in Middle-Earth.
Yavar
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For God's sake, no !
Bring back Shore & McCreary !
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