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 Posted:   May 2, 2020 - 3:57 PM   
 By:   MarkS   (Member)

The Varese "Mephisto Waltz" CD is not complete. There are three cues, totaling just about exactly six minutes missing. They are for the scene where Paula researches Duncan Ely's background at the library, the scene where Paula finds Bill dead on the beach, and the scene where Paula strikes her deal with the devil. All three cues, but especially the last one are really good. The last one is creepy as hell.

 
 Posted:   May 4, 2020 - 11:43 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

First things first! I have added, with Spinmeister's blessing, his new Goldsmith Deluxe Edition covers (inspired by this thread!) from the Custom Cover Art III thread. Go check 'em out and let them ignite your imagination of the possiblities!

The Final Conflict is Disney now. I seriously doubt that Bob can expand Final Conflict without any input or approvals from them. He may only be able to release what has already been produced.

Good point, Bryon -- thanks for chiming in. I hope someday a deal can be worked out (Doug Fake seems friendly enough with Bob, and has the Disney connection, so if anyone can manage it maybe Intrada can?) It would be a shame if arguably the greatest Omen score remains incomplete.
--

Whichever has the most missing and is least well presented on disc at the moment - so at this stage it would probably be Along Came A Spider and The Other at #1 and #2.

Well, if you go by percentage of music missing, The Other iso score track on the Twilight Time Blu-ray has about twice as much music as the old Varese suite. But the two Flint scores *also* have about twice as much music on the Twilight Time iso score tracks, and those are longer scores (about an hour each, whereas The Other is about 3/4 of an hour). So if by "most missing" you are concerned with how many minutes of "new" Goldsmith would be premiered on album, you should actually prioritize the two Flint scores over The Other. Plus LOVE FIELD, of course! I wouldn't be surprised if a Deluxe Edition managed to double the playtime on that score, which got only a 29 minute original album.
--

Ballad Of Cable Hogue is top of my list.
ANY unreleased music from it would delight me (although the CD does contain unused music, so maybe it's pretty complete).
However, one of the songs on the CD is sourced directly from the film, with sound FX (Butterfly Mornings).
Hopefully a new source could be located, to help keep the sonics in tandem with the rest of the score and other songs.
This score is Top 10 Goldsmith for me.
Love the film too.


For me I LOVE the film, and the score IN the film (might be one of my top 10 Goldsmith-scored films!) but just on album it's probably my least favorite Goldsmith western score. It's *perfect* for the film though which is obviously its primary job.
--

Is there a chance for an expanded release of Peter Bernstein's beautiful Ewoks scores or are they Disney now, too and not "in perpetuity" Varese titles?

An excellent question... for another thread. wink But I suspect since they were Lucasfilm Varese didn't get perpetuity rights...also this was the 80s where they mostly didn't anyway, as a matter of course. I think Intrada would be the best bet for these scores to be released complete. (But personally I hope they first produce a complete edition of P. Bernstein's magnum opus: Rough Riders!)
--

Kull

Also a topic for the other thread, but I appreciate you bringing it up -- I would totally buy a Deluxe Edition of Joel Goldsmith's Kull the Conqueror, personally! Very fun score. (How much more is there that's unreleased? Any more highlights on the level of Saving Zereta?)
--

Hey man! If some of your Goldsmith magic can spread out to getting McNeely's Terminal Velocity Deluxed (My top Holy Grail), I would be super grateful! :-)

For the record, I did not intend to say that you personally were narrow-minded, but that the Varese/Goldsmith focus was. Varese has SOOOOOOO much in Perp that if more voices like yours (which surely Varese heard) could see that other than goldsmith scores might sell too, then maybe the floodgates could open?

In fact to take a cue from you, I will start a new thread.


Good idea! There was clearly a need for it, despite my old Wish List thread doing pretty much the same thing. Though I'd say it might be helpful to make your thread an outright poll, like this one. Otherwise it may be messier for folks at Varese to digest the results, and which score(s) actually have the most support. Re: Terminal Velocity and other great McNeely scores Varese controls like Soldier -- I add a resounding HELL YEA! (And they should really appeal to Goldsmith scores too, since McNeely clearly channels Jerry at times in his action music.)
--

The Varese "Mephisto Waltz" CD is not complete. There are three cues, totaling just about exactly six minutes missing. They are for the scene where Paula researches Duncan Ely's background at the library, the scene where Paula finds Bill dead on the beach, and the scene where Paula strikes her deal with the devil. All three cues, but especially the last one are really good. The last one is creepy as hell.

Whoa! Is this true? It's the first I'd heard of the Varese not being complete (length-wise; I know it's missing proper overlays and sweeteners)! I'm pretty sure they acted like Mephisto Waltz was complete at the time, unless I'm mis-remembering. I'll have to double check the liner notes. In any case the important thing is I'd LOVE a new and improved Mephisto Waltz along the lines of LLL's Planet of the Apes restoration!
--

So...I'm inclined to do at least an initial tally, at this point...if anyone (Steven?) wants to chime in soon with their top ten, or expand their current picks to up to ten total, or change their current votes in any way, please do so soon if you'd like me to include those votes in my tally.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   May 4, 2020 - 5:58 PM   
 By:   Steven Lloyd   (Member)

So...I'm inclined to do at least an initial tally, at this point...if anyone (Steven?) wants to chime in soon with their top ten, or expand their current picks to up to ten total, or change their current votes in any way, please do so soon if you'd like me to include those votes in my tally.

Yavar


Okay, Yavar (pant, pant). I'm back ... hope I made it!

It's delightful to learn that you and Kevin hold THE BALLAD OF CABLE HOGUE in such high regard. I'm the rare hardcore Peckinpah fan who holds this as my personal favorite film (as it remained the director's favorite among his own work). I don't actually expect the label would bother expanding this one, since the original edition languished in the Varese warehouse for nearly four years until the picture was issued in a DVD box set along with three more famous Peckinpah Westerns ... after which the Varese CD sold out within a few months. I don't expect that timing was coincidental. If people will only watch the film, they appreciate it; including Goldsmith's music!

The HOGUE score remains underappreciated because the film is still so little-seen, and the general Goldsmith market likely perceives it as disappointingly short, on top of featuring three songs (two even written by someone else). But as a few of us know, it's definitely peak Goldsmith in both beauty and narrative power. (People don't have to settle for just MY word for this: I was delighted to learn years ago that Joe Dante named it as his own favorite Goldsmith score of all.)

But I'll get to business by confirming that the initial Varese CD was definitely not complete, even though its booklet notes offered no explanation for certain issues.

1) Most important to me, the disc is missing the opening 1:54 from the score's longest cue ("The Guest") -- which happens to contain the single finest instrumental variant of the composer's main theme, covering Hildy's arrival at Cable Springs. Damage to elements? I have no idea, since nothing was mentioned about this.

2) A few minutes of banjo/fiddle/tack piano source music heard from the town saloon are expendable, yet fun in context. But because years ago I had the chance to leaf through a music file on the Warner Bros. lot, I saw that two of those source pieces (possibly the ones I like best) were originals written by Arthur Morton. (There's also yet another Richard Gillis song there, sung briefly onscreen, that has never been missed.)

And 3) the existing CD opens with an alternate take of the film's Main Title song -- at least a different vocal take, in which lyricist Gillis conspicuously chuckles as he sings the word "grinning." (That's so "on the nose" that I've no doubt Goldsmith insisted on more subtlety; but the preferable film take is not what ended up on the Varese release.) EDIT: I forgot to specify the offending "chuckle" as coming only during the final line of the Main Title's vocal track.

By the way, Kevin -- the Jason Robards/Stella Stevens vocal duet of "Butterfly Mornin's" was recorded in mono on the set (which was reported elsewhere, as well as in the CD booklet notes), so it would remain the same even in a remastered edition.

I offer the above for the record. As a devotee I'd love for the gem of CABLE HOGUE to be complete on disc; but my grasp of reality keeps me from believing that Varese would find a revisit worth their investment. I thank those who are left for having issued it the first time, as I had wanted it for more than 30 years!

The existing MEPHISTO WALTZ disc definitely lacks the three cues identified earlier by MarkS. (The original booklet notes do not claim "completeness," to the label's credit). I agree that the final two missing cues are highlights -- especially when a ceremony summons Satan himself, who appears only as a human shadow cast across Jacqueline Bisset as her eyes widen, and the string section's notes rise up to and right past the top of the scale!

But here, to be cooperative, are my votes by order of personal priority. (However lucrative or unlikely they'd turn out to be.)

1) THE BALLAD OF CABLE HOGUE
2) LOVE FIELD
3) THE MEPHISTO WALTZ
4) LOONEY TUNES - BACK IN ACTION
5) OUR MAN FLINT
6) IN LIKE FLINT
7) THE OTHER
8) MEDICINE MAN
9) THE 13TH WARRIOR


MR. BASEBALL is equally undervalued, both film and score (and this comes from somebody with a lifelong lack of interest in sports). But as underplayed comedy insightful in its clash of cultures, social mores, and admirable skill at characterizations, this leaves TAKE HER, SHE'S MINE in the bleachers. Varese has too much sense to put more money into this again -- but I'd buy the slight expansion IF they did.

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2020 - 9:26 AM   
 By:   Captain_Kaos (no Giacchino fan)   (Member)

"Star Trek: The Motion Picture" as a four disc set. smile

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2020 - 11:55 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Okay, Yavar (pant, pant). I'm back ... hope I made it!

Of course you did! I was basically holding off because I was looking forward to your input, and I'm very glad I waited because what you've written here is great!

It's delightful to learn that you and Kevin hold THE BALLAD OF CABLE HOGUE in such high regard. I'm the rare hardcore Peckinpah fan who holds this as my personal favorite film (as it remained the director's favorite among his own work).

I wouldn't call myself a "hardcore Peckinpah fan", but I do cherish that box set of his western features and The Ballad of Cable Hogue is quite likely my favorite film of his. It is warm, unique, and moving, and Jerry's score plays a big part in that even if I find other western scores of his more engaging on album. For the record, Cable's competition in my affections is Ride the High Country, not The Wild Bunch (not that I deny the excellence of that more famous and lauded film, but I just prefer the other two). But Ride the High Country feels more traditional in a lot of ways, whereas I love Cable Hogue's greater quirkiness and uniqueness which make it feel more personal.

I don't actually expect the label would bother expanding this one, since the original edition languished in the Varese warehouse for nearly four years until the picture was issued in a DVD box set along with three more famous Peckinpah Westerns ... after which the Varese CD sold out within a few months. I don't expect that timing was coincidental. If people will only watch the film, they appreciate it; including Goldsmith's music!

Indeed! I hope you're wrong and Varese gives it another look for the unreleased music you outline below, especially since the film has had a lot more exposure and appreciation thanks to that DVD set, since their initial release of the score.

The HOGUE score remains underappreciated because the film is still so little-seen, and the general Goldsmith market likely perceives it as disappointingly short, on top of featuring three songs (two even written by someone else). But as a few of us know, it's definitely peak Goldsmith in both beauty and narrative power. (People don't have to settle for just MY word for this: I was delighted to learn years ago that Joe Dante named it as his own favorite Goldsmith score of all.)

What's your source on this, if I may ask? I guess it's possible that Dante has multiple "favorite Goldsmith scores of all", but I've actually seen a handwritten note he wrote a friend of mine where he claims Lonely Are the Brave is his favorite Goldsmith score of all.... and he's the first person I've heard claim that besides myself. smile

But I'll get to business by confirming that the initial Varese CD was definitely not complete, even though its booklet notes offered no explanation for certain issues.

1) Most important to me, the disc is missing the opening 1:54 from the score's longest cue ("The Guest") -- which happens to contain the single finest instrumental variant of the composer's main theme, covering Hildy's arrival at Cable Springs. Damage to elements? I have no idea, since nothing was mentioned about this.


Goodness, thanks for pointing this out! It is a HUGE omission, and warrants a Deluxe Edition all on its own, IMO! Absolutely a (if not *the*) highlight cue of the score.

2) A few minutes of banjo/fiddle/tack piano source music heard from the town saloon are expendable, yet fun in context. But because years ago I had the chance to leaf through a music file on the Warner Bros. lot, I saw that two of those source pieces (possibly the ones I like best) were originals written by Arthur Morton. (There's also yet another Richard Gillis song there, sung briefly onscreen, that has never been missed.)

Less interesting to me (though I love the original source music another Goldsmith orchestrator -- Herbert Spencer -- penned for Justine), but if it adds value to a potential Deluxe Edition reissue, I'm all for its inclusion!

And 3) the existing CD opens with an alternate take of the film's Main Title song -- at least a different vocal take, in which lyricist Gillis conspicuously chuckles as he sings the word "grinning." (That's so "on the nose" that I've no doubt Goldsmith insisted on more subtlety; but the preferable film take is not what ended up on the Varese release.) EDIT: I forgot to specify the offending "chuckle" as coming only during the final line of the Main Title's vocal track.

Fascinating! I never noticed this, but another thing to make a new edition worthwhile.

The existing MEPHISTO WALTZ disc definitely lacks the three cues identified earlier by MarkS. (The original booklet notes do not claim "completeness," to the label's credit). I agree that the final two missing cues are highlights -- especially when a ceremony summons Satan himself, who appears only as a human shadow cast across Jacqueline Bisset as her eyes widen, and the string section's notes rise up to and right past the top of the scale!

Wow, good to know! Thanks MarkS for the info and thanks to you for confirming!

But here, to be cooperative, are my votes by order of personal priority. (However lucrative or unlikely they'd turn out to be.)

1) THE BALLAD OF CABLE HOGUE
2) LOVE FIELD
3) THE MEPHISTO WALTZ
4) LOONEY TUNES - BACK IN ACTION
5) OUR MAN FLINT
6) IN LIKE FLINT
7) THE OTHER
8) MEDICINE MAN
9) THE 13TH WARRIOR


MR. BASEBALL is equally undervalued, both film and score (and this comes from somebody with a lifelong lack of interest in sports). But as underplayed comedy insightful in its clash of cultures, social mores, and admirable skill at characterizations, this leaves TAKE HER, SHE'S MINE in the bleachers. Varese has too much sense to put more money into this again -- but I'd buy the slight expansion IF they did.


Great and unique list! I will put Mr. Baseball in for one point as your #10, since you didn't seem to indicate one explicitly for that spot.

Last call for anyone else wanting to vote before my initial tally -- I will do that within 24 hours. Also, to reiterate: anyone voting for stuff like MacArthur, Leviathan, Lionheart, Mulan, The Final Conflict, etc. (all stuff I mentioned near the end of my initial post, for clarity) -- this poll is about titles Varese controls in perpetuity, and they do not have perpetuity rights on these. Therefore I won't be tallying votes for these titles -- if they are somewhere on your top 10 and you would like to replace them with a different pick of a title Varese controls in perpetuity, please let me know!

Yavar

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2020 - 2:16 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Here are my point calculations so far (of eligible titles) for anyone interested in the nuts and bolts of this poll. In cases where people didn't number their choices, I ranked them in the order they were mentioned (with one exception where someone described at the end of a post that The 13th Warrior was their dream release, which made the intent pretty clear that it should be at #1 ahead of their previous two titles mentioned). In cases where people listed a title that was not eligible because Varese has no perpetuity rights (i.e. MacArthur, which any label should be able to release), I eliminated the title and moved the others up in ranking/points. In cases where a few people combined the two Flint scores into one pick (perhaps because Varese previously released them as a twofer, or perhaps my fault since I kinda paired them for my description purposes, in the first post), I did them in order mentioned, but then unfortunately had to bump a few people's #10s, because they had already given their vote to 10 titles. In these few cases I elected to still include them below, with a "ranked point" of simply "0" (because no one gets to have more "vote" than anyone else here, = 10! = 55). But I still wanted to acknowledge the votes somehow, and maybe when tallying pure (non-ranked) votes out of curiosity, I will allow their inclusion as expressing interest:

Our Man Flint (1966) 6 + 7 + 10 + 5 + 10 + 10 + 7 + 9 + 10 + 6 +

In Like Flint (1967) 1 + 8 + 9 + 4 + 9 + 9 + 6 + 8 + 9 + 5 +

The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970) 8 + 10 + 9 + 10 +

The Mephisto Waltz (1971) 5 + 9 + 9 + 0 + 7 + 2 + 10 + 2 + 10 + 9 + 9 + 6 + 10 + 8 +

The Other (1972) 8 + 10 + 2 + 10 + 6 + 8 + 3 + 9 + 10 + 9 + 9 + 10 + 10 + 9 + 4 +

Damien: Omen II (1978) 8 + 5 + 9 +

Raggedy Man (1981) 7 + 4 + 4 + 10 +

Love Field (1991) 10 + 10 + 4 + 9 + 6 + 3 + 5 + 10 + 7 + 10 + 8 + 7 + 9 +

Mom and Dad Save the World (1991) 7 + 9 + 8 + 7 + 2 + 6 + 8 + 2 +

Medicine Man (1992) 9 + 10 + 6 + 5 + 1 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 3 +

Mr. Baseball (1992) 4 + 1 +

Malice (1993) 1 + 1 + 5 +

Matinee (1993) 2 + 9 + 8 + 6 + 9 + 8 + 3 + 10 + 5 + 8 +

Rudy (1993) 10 + 3 + 2 + 9 + 10 + 10 + 8 + 10 +

Angie (1994) 0 +

City Hall (1996) 4 + 3 + 8 + 6 + 10 + 3 +

L.A. Confidential (1997) 8 + 5 + 8 + 10 + 6 + 8 + 10 +

The 13th Warrior (1999) 9 + 10 + 9 + 8 + 1 + 10 + 7 + 4 + 8 + 7 + 9 + 9 + 10 + 2 +

Hollow Man (2000) 7 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 2 + 8 + 4 + 7 + 4 +

Along Came a Spider (2001) 10 + 7 + 9 + 9 + 5 + 10 +

Timeline (2003) 8 + 1 + 0 + 6 + 6 + 5 + 8 + 10 +

Looney Tunes: Back in Action (2003) 3 + 9 + 0 + 9 + 7 + 7 +

Interestingly, only one of the many options presented will leave this contest with zero points... poor Angie! It would have had a single point thanks to my friend David Lichty including it in 10th place on his list, but alas he was one of the three people who combined the two Flint scores into one "place", so Angie being the 11th score mentioned on his list was bumped.

Yavar

P.S. With the revelation that the previous Varese release was incomplete (missing at least three cues -- thanks to MarkS and Steven Lloyd for the info!), Spinmeister's new cover art for The Mephisto Waltz: The Deluxe Edition has just been added to the original post. smile

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2020 - 4:19 PM   
 By:   Brundlefly   (Member)

1. The Mephisto Waltz
2. The Other
3. Damien: Omen II

I don't really need complete scores of all his 90s scores. Even the last two Varese expansions didn't get me that excited. Happy to see though that so many titles are out of Varese's hand. Now, what I want from them is 70s horror remastered by Mike Matessino!

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2020 - 4:23 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

1. The Mephisto Waltz
2. The Other
3. Damien: Omen II

I don't really need complete scores of all his 90s scores.


I understand your priorities, but aren't there *any* of his 90s scores you would be interested in an expanded edition for? Love Field? Medicine Man? The 13th Warrior? Nothing? You're allowed up to 10 picks. smile

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2020 - 4:49 PM   
 By:   Nathan Erickson   (Member)

Here are my point calculations so far (of eligible titles) for anyone interested in the nuts and bolts of this poll. In cases where people didn't number their choices, I ranked them in the order they were mentioned (with one exception where someone described at the end of a post that The 13th Warrior was their dream release, which made the intent pretty clear that it should be at #1 ahead of their previous two titles mentioned). In cases where people listed a title that was not eligible because Varese has no perpetuity rights (i.e. MacArthur, which any label should be able to release), I eliminated the title and moved the others up in ranking/points. In cases where a few people combined the two Flint scores into one pick (perhaps because Varese previously released them as a twofer, or perhaps my fault since I kinda paired them for my description purposes, in the first post), I did them in order mentioned, but then unfortunately had to bump a few people's #10s, because they had already given their vote to 10 titles. In these few cases I elected to still include them below, with a "ranked point" of simply "0" (because no one gets to have more "vote" than anyone else here, = 10! = 55). But I still wanted to acknowledge the votes somehow, and maybe when tallying pure (non-ranked) votes out of curiosity, I will allow their inclusion as expressing interest:

Our Man Flint (1966) 6 + 7 + 10 + 5 + 10 + 10 + 7 + 9 + 10 + 6 +

In Like Flint (1967) 1 + 8 + 9 + 4 + 9 + 9 + 6 + 8 + 9 + 5 +

The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970) 8 + 10 + 9 + 10 +

The Mephisto Waltz (1971) 5 + 9 + 9 + 0 + 7 + 2 + 10 + 2 + 10 + 9 + 9 + 6 + 10 + 8 +

The Other (1972) 8 + 10 + 2 + 10 + 6 + 8 + 3 + 9 + 10 + 9 + 9 + 10 + 10 + 9 + 4 +

Damien: Omen II (1978) 8 + 5 + 9 +

Raggedy Man (1981) 7 + 4 + 4 + 10 +

Love Field (1991) 10 + 10 + 4 + 9 + 6 + 3 + 5 + 10 + 7 + 10 + 8 + 7 + 9 +

Mom and Dad Save the World (1991) 7 + 9 + 8 + 7 + 2 + 6 + 8 + 2 +

Medicine Man (1992) 9 + 10 + 6 + 5 + 1 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 3 +

Mr. Baseball (1992) 4 + 1 +

Malice (1993) 1 + 1 + 5 +

Matinee (1993) 2 + 9 + 8 + 6 + 9 + 8 + 3 + 10 + 5 + 8 +

Rudy (1993) 10 + 3 + 2 + 9 + 10 + 10 + 8 + 10 +

Angie (1994) 0 +

City Hall (1996) 4 + 3 + 8 + 6 + 10 + 3 +

L.A. Confidential (1997) 8 + 5 + 8 + 10 + 6 + 8 + 10 +

The 13th Warrior (1999) 9 + 10 + 9 + 8 + 1 + 10 + 7 + 4 + 8 + 7 + 9 + 9 + 10 + 2 +

Hollow Man (2000) 7 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 2 + 8 + 4 + 7 + 4 +

Along Came a Spider (2001) 10 + 7 + 9 + 9 + 5 + 10 +

Timeline (2003) 8 + 1 + 0 + 6 + 6 + 5 + 8 + 10 +

Looney Tunes: Back in Action (2003) 3 + 9 + 0 + 9 + 7 + 7 +

Interestingly, only one of the many options presented will leave this contest with zero points... poor Angie! It would have had a single point thanks to my friend David Lichty including it in 10th place on his list, but alas he was one of the three people who combined the two Flint scores into one "place", so Angie being the 11th score mentioned on his list was bumped.

Yavar

P.S. With the revelation that the previous Varese release was incomplete (missing at least three cues -- thanks to MarkS and Steven Lloyd for the info!), Spinmeister's new cover art for The Mephisto Waltz: The Deluxe Edition has just been added to the original post. smile


Yavar just in case I missed it in one of your previous posts, when are you closing this poll and the other Goldsmith premiere one?

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2020 - 10:57 PM   
 By:   Ryks   (Member)

1. Hollow Man
2. L.A. Confidential
3. Medicine Man
4. Rudy
5. Timeline
6. City Hall
7. The Other
8. The 13th Warrior
9. In Like Flint
10. Looney Tunes: Back in Action

 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 8:26 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Yavar just in case I missed it in one of your previous posts, when are you closing this poll and the other Goldsmith premiere one?

I hadn't decided! But as for the initial tallied point results, I'll be doing those some time today.

Great list, Ryks!

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 12:25 PM   
 By:   Nathan Erickson   (Member)

Yavar just in case I missed it in one of your previous posts, when are you closing this poll and the other Goldsmith premiere one?

I hadn't decided! But as for the initial tallied point results, I'll be doing those some time today.

Great list, Ryks!

Yavar


Ok thanks. I still need some more time to think. Hard to choose!

 
 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 12:59 PM   
 By:   Steven Lloyd   (Member)

I was delighted to learn years ago that Joe Dante named it as his own favorite Goldsmith score of all.

What's your source on this, if I may ask? I guess it's possible that Dante has multiple "favorite Goldsmith scores of all", but I've actually seen a handwritten note he wrote a friend of mine where he claims Lonely Are the Brave is his favorite Goldsmith score of all.... and he's the first person I've heard claim that besides myself. smile


Yavar


I believe in attribution for accuracy, Yavar, so I tried to accommodate your inquiry. First I returned to Dante's voiceover for the CABLE HOGUE trailer from the "Trailers From Hell" collection: No mention of the score (although he did name HOGUE as his favorite Peckinpah picture). Then last night I went through FSM's tribute magazine published after Goldsmith's death, remembering that the director had contributed a fond reminiscence of his friend; but it wasn't there, either. Dante and I exchanged a few e-mails years ago after he had enjoyed an article I had written, but I'm sure we didn't discuss the composer then.

Therefore, Yavar, instead of searching further to confirm my memory -- and risk robbing you of your pleasure in knowing that you and Joe Dante have a top-favorite score in common -- I'll just acknowledge that I must have mistakenly conflated HOGUE being his favorite Peckinpah, with it being his favorite Goldsmith. I apologize!

It turns out I was wrong about something else, however. Returning to the DVD, the cue "The Guest" on the existing CD of HOGUE is missing not 1:54 off the top, but 2:46. (Sorry to be off the first time; I misremembered the point at which the cue actually starts on the CD.)

By the way, I was a bit sorry to read that ANGIE suffered the shame of being the only title in this thread to receive zero votes. It's a nice album with a lovely main melody that I could hum in full at this moment, despite not having listened to the disc in many years. (I doubt whether I would recognize CITY HALL or CHAIN REACTION today, and wouldn't sit through those pictures again ... although I could for ANGIE.)

I wasn't motivated to go see it theatrically; but since by then I'd had a more-than-20-year habit of trying to watch everything my favorite composer worked on, I rented ANGIE on laser disc and was pleasantly surprised. The picture was mismarketed as romantic comedy, which it isn't (even as it probably won't appeal to a lot of the Goldsmith base). But in director Martha Coolidge's audio commentary for that laser disc she spoke extensively of her admiration for the composer himself going in, as well as her appreciation for both his contributions to her film and what he was like as a collaborator. If that commentary was retained for a future DVD release, Goldsmith fans would find it worth a rental or the price of a used disc. In turn, some might like the movie better than they expect -- and even appreciate the CD more than they used to.

Anyway, you put an impressive amount of labor into that tabulation, Yavar. I don't know whether you are a statistician who dabbles as a film-music buff in your spare time, but I salute your investment of time and energy here!

 
 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 1:01 PM   
 By:   jwb1   (Member)

Rudy, Supergirl, Leviathan

 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 3:14 PM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

Interestingly, only one of the many options presented will leave this contest with zero points... poor Angie! It would have had a single point thanks to my friend David Lichty including it in 10th place on his list, but alas he was one of the three people who combined the two Flint scores into one "place", so Angie being the 11th score mentioned on his list was bumped.

So wait... if Angie has zero, then it sorta legitimizes my under-pointed-to CBS Library option!

Where's my CBS Library option?

Ay?

AY!!

 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 4:13 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Wrong thread/poll, David. You're looking for the "Goldsmith premieres" poll: https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=140075&forumID=1&archive=0

jwb1, despite their 80s album releases, Varese has no rights to Supergirl and Leviathan so they aren't part of this poll -- would you like to make any different 2nd and 3rd picks after Rudy?

Yavar

 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 6:02 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I believe in attribution for accuracy, Yavar, so I tried to accommodate your inquiry. First I returned to Dante's voiceover for the CABLE HOGUE trailer from the "Trailers From Hell" collection: No mention of the score (although he did name HOGUE as his favorite Peckinpah picture). Then last night I went through FSM's tribute magazine published after Goldsmith's death, remembering that the director had contributed a fond reminiscence of his friend; but it wasn't there, either. Dante and I exchanged a few e-mails years ago after he had enjoyed an article I had written, but I'm sure we didn't discuss the composer then.

Therefore, Yavar, instead of searching further to confirm my memory -- and risk robbing you of your pleasure in knowing that you and Joe Dante have a top-favorite score in common -- I'll just acknowledge that I must have mistakenly conflated HOGUE being his favorite Peckinpah, with it being his favorite Goldsmith. I apologize!


No need to apologize! I honestly was just wondering if Dante *had* claimed Cable Hogue as his favorite Goldsmith score at some point. Lord knows my favorite Goldsmith score has changed over the years, and oftentimes my favorite Goldsmith score has been the one I listened to most recently. smile It would have been very interesting to me if you had found some attribution for that, and if you run across it please do share! For now, since I got permission from my friend to share, I will provide the handwritten note from Joe Dante where he names Lonely Are the Brave as his favorite (and also Looney Tunes: Back in Action as his favorite Goldsmith score for one of his pictures):



It turns out I was wrong about something else, however. Returning to the DVD, the cue "The Guest" on the existing CD of HOGUE is missing not 1:54 off the top, but 2:46. (Sorry to be off the first time; I misremembered the point at which the cue actually starts on the CD.)

Goodness! Almost three minutes of some of the score's best music! Thanks for the info.

By the way, I was a bit sorry to read that ANGIE suffered the shame of being the only title in this thread to receive zero votes.

Not quite zero votes -- as I noted, David put it as #10 on his list but since he doubled up the two Flints as #1, it was actually the eleventh score on the list and I couldn't award it any points, for the purposes of this ranked choice vote.

I wasn't motivated to go see it theatrically; but since by then I'd had a more-than-20-year habit of trying to watch everything my favorite composer worked on, I rented ANGIE on laser disc and was pleasantly surprised. The picture was mismarketed as romantic comedy, which it isn't (even as it probably won't appeal to a lot of the Goldsmith base). But in director Martha Coolidge's audio commentary for that laser disc she spoke extensively of her admiration for the composer himself going in, as well as her appreciation for both his contributions to her film and what he was like as a collaborator. If that commentary was retained for a future DVD release, Goldsmith fans would find it worth a rental or the price of a used disc. In turn, some might like the movie better than they expect -- and even appreciate the CD more than they used to.

Thanks for the tip! We shall have to seek out this commentary and clip the parts where she speaks about collaborating with Jerry...for when The Goldsmith Odyssey podcasts arrives at Angie fifteen years from now. big grin

Anyway, you put an impressive amount of labor into that tabulation, Yavar. I don't know whether you are a statistician who dabbles as a film-music buff in your spare time, but I salute your investment of time and energy here!

Thanks! I'm not a statistician though I always excelled in math. But music is both my passion and my profession, as I'm the marketing and box office manager for the Santa Fe Desert Chorale, a prestigious chamber choir here in the States.

I may hold off on the initial tabulation of points, if Nathan is on the verge of providing his own top 10 list...

Yavar

 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 7:07 PM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

Wrong thread/poll, David. You're looking for the "Goldsmith premieres" poll: https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=140075&forumID=1&archive=0

Why, I was . . . I was testing you, Yavar.

Yeah.

 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 7:11 PM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

I believe in attribution for accuracy, Yavar, so I tried to accommodate your inquiry... I'll just acknowledge that I must have mistakenly conflated HOGUE being his favorite Peckinpah, with it being his favorite Goldsmith. I apologize!

...It would have been very interesting to me if you had found some attribution for that...


Don't count yourselves out too quickly!

The attribution is here among us. Zooba has recounted it in at least two threads here, from a conversation he had with Dante himself.

here
https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=7&pageID=1&threadID=120856&archive=0
and here
https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=74390&archive=0&pageID=1

 
 
 Posted:   May 6, 2020 - 7:19 PM   
 By:   Nathan Erickson   (Member)

I may hold off on the initial tabulation of points, if Nathan is on the verge of providing his own top 10 list...

Yavar


Tough, but thanks so much for waiting! I've been playing through selections all afternoon/evening to help me! Here we go...

1. Matinee - my top choice and one I hope we get someday!
2. City Hall - saw the movie recently and would love to see this complete.
3. Medicine Man - such a beautiful score and interested to hear it in complete form.
4. Looney Tunes: Back In Action - fun and goofy with some similar vibes to "Gremlins 2" (one of my all time favorites!)
5. Angie - beautiful main theme and interested to hear the missing selections
6. Damien: Omen II - thought complete, always happy to have our "audio masters" clean up scores that could use a little extra TLC
7. The Ballad Of Cable Hogue - would be interested to hear the missing cues
8. Love Field - curious as to the unreleased music on this one
9. Mom And Dad Save The World - curious to see how the missing music would change the listening experience on this one
10. The Other - beautiful cues on this one and could use a remaster plus expansion

 
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