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 Posted:   Sep 20, 2022 - 2:31 PM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

I love Weinberg! ...I love his big symphonies and chamber music and especially his Chamber Symphonies.

And another composer more recent for me from roughly the same period, mid-20th C in Poland, is Grazyna Bacewicz. Very much in the same idiom, her music is very appealing to me - love recordings on Chandos and elsewhere.


I'm with you there ... I, too, decided to try-out Bacewicz ... not the easiest of listens but rewarding. An album of her Piano Quintets and Sonata (Zimerman) is particulary enjoyable.

I know we're way off-topic now (sorry!) but I'll throw in George Enescu ... so many wonderful compositions!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2022 - 2:39 PM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)

I love Weinberg! Have ever since he was called Vainberg in English thanks to some old Olympia recordings from mother Russia. I love his big symphonies and chamber music and especially his Chamber Symphonies.

And another composer more recent for me from roughly the same period, mid-20th C in Poland, is Grazyna Bacewicz. Very much in the same idiom, her music is very appealing to me - love recordings on Chandos and elsewhere.

But that's not why I intended to post! wink


Oh yes, Symphony 4 / Violin Concerto. First on the Russian Melodia label & then on Olympia, still one of my favourite CDs. Anyway, back to buying, or not buying CDs smile

 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2022 - 2:45 PM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Sideline off-topic excursions about music that exites you enough to buy (or that you just love/discovered) are welcomed and are not discouraged.

 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2022 - 3:16 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I'm with you there ... I, too, decided to try-out Bacewicz ... not the easiest of listens but rewarding. An album of her Piano Quintets and Sonata (Zimerman) is particulary enjoyable.

I know we're way off-topic now....


To take it maybe a step too far, I so love this one and the other Chandos release of string quartets that I did buy the CDs. Maybe especially for the great cover photos!



Very amusing that this image is redirecting from ... you guessed it, Spotify! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2022 - 3:36 PM   
 By:   bewlay   (Member)

It's mainly downloads & sometimes CDs for me. I'll buy CDs in one of two scenarios: for special editions/expanded versions of soundtracks that I absolutely love & want a hard copy - or if I'm unable to find the score as a digital download. Though I'm not that beholden to having the physical product in my hands anymore. As to the possibility of losing your data on the laptop/harddrive or on multiple backups, the same could be said of losing your CD or vinyl collection in a fire. No format is guaranteed to survive in the unfortunate event of an accident.

Someone said earlier that we are in a golden age of sorts with regards to music listening. I wholeheartedly agree. Through the interwebs I have discovered music that I would have never come across in previous decades during all those visits to record shops. Streaming is fantastic for discovering new music. Youtube has plenty of eclectic channels that showcase all kinds of music you never knew existed. Is it all good? No, but I've still discovered many albums & music that I would have never looked for otherwise. Sure, I miss the 'tangible' days of browsing through the CD racks looking for an undiscovered gem, but the options for discovery online are infinite, one search can lead down a path to multiple discoveries that you weren't even looking for. One vast, giant library that seems to continually expand even when you think you've heard everything. All it requires is the desire & curiosity to explore. From there I'll search out the best available format - digital download or CD - and purchase it.


One thing significantly altered the way I looked at music formats when I was much younger. I used to be quite precious about my CD collection in all its nicely packaged glory. When I had opportunities to work & travel long term abroad, I was faced with the dilemma of what to do with my music, as I wanted to have it with me. I had to travel light as I moved around a bit. It was unclear to me for how long I was going to be away from home base. I went through the elaborate task of ripping all my CD to digital(FLAC), but once I did, I never looked back. All of a sudden what mattered most was the music itself, the rest was extraneous. Since then that mindset has stayed with me; life is short, enjoy the music & let go of the stuff (ie packaging) that matters less.

Strangely, while my music collection has gone digital, my film collection is 100% certified physical format. Blu-rays or nothing.

I've found that music & film appreciation are moving in opposite directions(or perhaps it's just me?)  Many people don't seem to mind listening to music via inferior methods (streaming or on their iphone), while films are evolving from dvd to blu ray to 4KHD, with an insistence on nothing but the best quality, 'faithful' to the way it was originally presented in cinemas, etc. Sharpness of image, detail, color grading & audio are rigorously prioritized & scrutinized whereas music listening isn't held to the same standard. It's not completely black & white, of course. Both music & film are indeed streamed all the time today, people watch films on their laptops, but I've often found that people are willing to make more compromises with the way they listen to their music vs film viewing where emphasis is placed on having all the tech, large screens, home cinema, best quality edition of the film, etc to get the best immersive movie going experience.

 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2022 - 3:42 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Someone said earlier that we are in a golden age of sorts with regards to music listening. I wholeheartedly agree.

That was me. smile

(At least I think it was me, I certainly believe it. I need so much positive reinforcement, it's embarrasing!)

Anyway, one thought on video vs. audio: we humans are more oriented towards visual input than anything else. Plus people often listen to music while doing something else. I work in radio, and can say this is true for talk as well as music.

So I think people want the best possible experience for their eyes. and can deal with a lot less data for the ears.

 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2022 - 4:34 PM   
 By:   Peter Atterberg   (Member)

I am 32 years old and I still buy 99 percent of my music! Whether it be digital or physical. Being a fellow artist, I like to feel like I am contributing to the creator of the material when I can. I also like the feeling of “owning it.” Usually comes in better quality too when purchased.

 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2022 - 11:45 PM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Someone said earlier that we are in a golden age of sorts with regards to music listening. I wholeheartedly agree.

That was me. smile

(At least I think it was me, I certainly believe it. I need so much positive reinforcement, it's embarrasing!)

Anyway, one thought on video vs. audio: we humans are more oriented towards visual input than anything else. Plus people often listen to music while doing something else. I work in radio, and can say this is true for talk as well as music.

So I think people want the best possible experience for their eyes. and can deal with a lot less data for the ears.



I suppose that depends on what you see or watch. If I listen in my car to podcasts or audio books, audio quality is of lesser importance.
However, when it comes to home enjoyment, audio is more important than video. I love big 4K screens and all, but if I had to choose between high-quality audio or high-quality video, audio is more important to me. (Thankfully, I don’t have to choose.)
But I much more frequently sit down in the evening to enjoy a good Brahm String Quartet than watching TV or a movie, so audio matters more to me when it comes to home equipment.
But most people are casual music listeners who listen to pop music and are not concerned with audio quality, so yeah, it's a lesser issue.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2022 - 12:19 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)


But I much more frequently sit down in the evening to enjoy a good Brahm String Quartet



I’m delighted to hear that Hans Zimmer has written a string quartet, must hunt it out.

Nice to see Weinberg getting some oxygen hereabouts. Probably been collecting his CDs - repeat, CDs - for five years or so, and he’s now one of my favourite three composers. At the last count I have 28 Weinberg CDs, although some are sets such as the complete string quartets. I find I don’t value the music so much if (a) I haven’t had to pay for it, and (b) can’t hold it in my hand. Doesn’t make any sense really but what does nowadays?

Still surprising how many learned books on music, some of them large encyclopaedias, don’t even mention Weinberg except perhaps as a friend of Shostakovich (and co-player of the four-handed piano version of the tenth symphony).

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2022 - 2:06 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)


But I much more frequently sit down in the evening to enjoy a good Brahm String Quartet



I’m delighted to hear that Hans Zimmer has written a string quartet, must hunt it out.




LOL, thanks for the laugh. Of course I personally and manually ignore that comment of yours, but it did make me laugh first. smile

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2022 - 7:00 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

On a side note I think its more important than ever to buy movies and television series in physical format. The way the studios are altering, censoring, removing content is alarming.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2022 - 7:41 AM   
 By:   rdj252   (Member)

On a side note I think its more important than ever to buy movies and television series in physical format. The way the studios are altering, censoring, removing content is alarming.

I wholly agree with this. I can't stand how everything gets the 1984 treatment these days- and that's not a political statement before people get up in arms it's just my observation and apparently I'm not alone. I want to see things in their original presentation. I'd like to have that experience, and then I can decide if I care for it or not I'm an adult.

A simple answer to the question in this thread for me is yes. Physical media, be it CDs, Blu Rays, DVDs or 4K Blu Rays, will always be how I own something. It's guaranteed that I actually have the thing to enjoy (Amazon or insert streaming service here can't make it disappear), and it's tangible.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2022 - 7:48 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

On a side note I think its more important than ever to buy movies and television series in physical format. The way the studios are altering, censoring, removing content is alarming.

I wholly agree with this. I can't stand how everything gets the 1984 treatment these days- and that's not a political statement before people get up in arms it's just my observation and apparently I'm not alone. I want to see things in their original presentation. I'd like to have that experience, and then I can decide if I care for it or not I'm an adult.

A simple answer to the question in this thread for me is yes. Physical media, be it CDs, Blu Rays, DVDs or 4K Blu Rays, will always be how I own something. It's guaranteed that I actually have the thing to enjoy (Amazon or insert streaming service here can't make it disappear), and it's tangible.


Your "1984 treatment" was great. And its not always for political reasons. I think the "remastering" of a lot of movies nowadays have gone overboard, where those working on them are making changes based on their own preferences. I know some think Star Trek TMP The Directors Edition is great, but what didn't they alter or change? Seems every frame.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2022 - 9:43 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I know some think Star Trek TMP The Directors Edition is great, but what didn't they alter or change? Seems every frame.

But the original theatrical edition is still available, even on Paramount+, so it's an alternative, not a replacement. In this case, anyway. (I'm not going to get into the Star Wars versions debate, never meant much to me.)

There's a long history of this in book publishing. Later editions of Darwin's Origin of Species has some important differences. Walt Whitman's later editions of his magnum opus Leaves of Grass added and dropped poems. In Classical music, lots of works are revised and become the only published edition, at least until it goes out of copyright.

I'm not evaluating this, just noting it.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2022 - 11:58 AM   
 By:   rdj252   (Member)

The remastering, tinkering with music and films etc. has been going on for a long time, but, especially with movies seems to happen more in the past couple of decades. I love hearing and seeing the original works, but have enjoyed a remastered score (but never more than the original that I remember), and have found some extended or director’s cuts of films (either making them longer or occasionally shorter or just different) better (in my opinion) than the original film itself. Aliens and T2 come to mind but the originals are fantastic. I like to see everything a director filmed even in a deleted scene to get an idea of what could have been and for historical record (history nerd). I do feel the original presentations should be available and preserved (again for historical purposes). Hearing what another composer has to bring to someone’s music as a remastered take is interesting but most times I’m not a fan. The editing and/or censoring of films to protect or for “our modern sensibilities” is what really bugs me the most. The 1984 treatments. Good discussion points.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2022 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I know some think Star Trek TMP The Directors Edition is great, but what didn't they alter or change? Seems every frame.

But the original theatrical edition is still available, even on Paramount+, so it's an alternative, not a replacement. In this case, anyway. (I'm not going to get into the Star Wars versions debate, never meant much to me.)

There's a long history of this in book publishing. Later editions of Darwin's Origin of Species has some important differences. Walt Whitman's later editions of his magnum opus Leaves of Grass added and dropped poems. In Classical music, lots of works are revised and become the only published edition, at least until it goes out of copyright.

I'm not evaluating this, just noting it.


True, it’s not a total replacement. But we don’t always have a choice either. Recently Star Trek TWOK was rereleased in the theaters and it was the directors cut. I was really bummed out about that. There’s zero reason for an alternative cut of that film to begin with.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2022 - 6:38 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

There has been some discussion here about the long-term sustainability of streaming.

Dunno of course, but I found this article interesting.

RIAA: Recorded Music Revenues Rose 9% to $7.7 Billion In First Half

Continuing to build on 2021’s sturdy growth, U.S recorded music revenues in the first half of 2022 rose 9% to $7.7 billion in estimated retail value. Streaming remained the industry’s big breadwinner with revenues of $6.5 billion, up 10% year-over-year, according to the RIAA’s mid-year 2022 revenue report.

https://www.insideradio.com/free/riaa-recorded-music-revenues-rose-9-to-7-7-billion-in-first-half/article_d8d624f8-3a41-11ed-a9d1-cf995fbfdd4a.html

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2022 - 8:05 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Yes, I think the sustainability of streaming is an issue. Not so much whether streaming will be around or profitable, but how. The way most streaming payments are currently setup, a small bunch of highly played (often on repeat and playlists) pop stars reap all the money. Classical music gets practically nothing, which is why there are very, very few new releases these days, and hardly any studio releases. Which has to do with that payments are mostly paid out for played tracks. If two people pay 20$ a month, and one listens to the new album of Kanye West day and night, and another listens to a BIS recording of Schönberg's String Quartets, both pay the same amount of money, but 97% (or something like it) of the money will be allotted to "Kanye".

Had these people both bought the new CD, the money would have been divided more evenly.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2022 - 8:13 AM   
 By:   Saul Pincus   (Member)

Yes, I think the sustainability of streaming is an issue. Not so much whether streaming will be around or profitable, but how. The way most streaming payments are currently setup, a small bunch of highly played (often on repeat and playlists) pop stars reap all the money. Classical music gets practically nothing, which is why there are very, very few new releases these days, and hardly any studio releases. Which has to do with that payments are mostly paid out for played tracks. If two people pay 20$ a month, and one listens to the new album of Kanye West day and night, and another listens to a BIS recording of Schönberg's String Quartets, both pay the same amount of money, but 97% (or something like it) of the money will be allotted to "Kanye".

Had these people both bought the new CD, the money would have been divided more evenly.


More specifically, 99.9% of recording artists themselves makes pennies on streaming (compared to physical sales.) It's their continued livelihoods that are unsustainable in a streaming world.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2022 - 8:50 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

It's not that their livelihoods are unsustainable, it's that they've lost one revenue stream. Admittedly, one that used to be big, but now is more like radio airplay - builds awareness but not direct income.

Live gigs and touring for artists at all levels is brings in the bulk of the money now. Across genres and formats. But there is a range of streams, including licensing, merchandising (vinyl for example), a bit of streaming, etc.

Also, Nicolai, I'm aware of a couple dozen new releases of Classical music every month, from Naxos, Chandos, Hyperion, Signum, LSO Live, Universal Music Group, Harmonia Mundi, and so on. Hyperion alone releases something over 40 new releases every year, and I believe they are all studio releases. That's hardly very, very few.

(I work in public radio, including overseeing Classical and Indie rock formats, so this isn't just opinion.)

 
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