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Had a listen to this today and think it’s excellent. Like others have already said, the mixed choir with chanting is not an Omen lift. Jerry’s Omen takes influence from Symphony of Psalms while Horner clearly seemed more influenced by Penderecki (he did study with Ligeti too). What is really impressive is his deft use of orchestral textures and the clarity of his scoring. Like him or hate him, Horner really knew his way around an orchestra.
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Given just the samples, elements of the choral bits are very clearly derived from The Omen soundtrack - the particular voicings and use of intervals, dissonance, patterns, whole passages. I know this to be true, because The Omen was one of the first soundtracks I learned by heart, and every so often I hear something and I know what's coming next.
For example the Trouble in the Convertible cue is absolutely modeled on The Dog's Attack - compressed and with a different vocal pattern, but absolutely following the overall tempo and movement of orchestral elements. The same pattern can be heard around :50 into the sample of Faith Leaps Out.
And the rising and falling minor second in the male voices, which start the maintitles, is absolutely a steal. If I heard just the opening of Unwelcome Visitor, I would have said - hey, where does that play in The Omen.
Okay, I'm only going on like this because some have said it's not really Goldsmith steals. And yes, Goldsmith is influenced by Stravinsky, but also Penderecki, just like Horner. And yes, as always, Horner synthesizes it all into his overall idiom, and writes music that works on its own. And certainly plenty of it is just sharing this particular horror idiom.
But Goldsmith did some things in The Omen that have distinctive enough DNA that there is just no question Horner was told to do it this way, or who knows, just wanted to. It's making it hard for me to want to pick this one up, also given the slowly swelling price, the issues of audio quality, and too many Horner albums I already haven't listened to enough. Like Wolfen, for instance!
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So it seems we're still unsure about "Melissa's Awakening" after all? I will have to wait a few weeks before my copy arrives, but maybe someone else can clear things up in the meantime.
On the unmentionable "Melissa's Awakening" is comprised of three separate cues. Only the middle one (about 1:41 long) is the actual "Melissa's Awakening". In the film that scene is right between "Wind Blows in Martha's Room" and "Trouble in the Convertible". It's the scene that TruPretender describes as "the cue when Melissa awakens, grabs the knife from the kitchen and runs out to find John (who is with Vicky)". c8 writes "Melissa’s Awakening is a part of Wind Blows In Martha’s Room on this release.", but he also writes that the cue is timed correctly with a playing time of only 47 seconds. Somehow this doesn't seem to make sense. If the other cue is part of the same track it should be much longer. So where is it really?
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I could barely make myself dinner in my 20's.
I still have trouble
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Okay, I'm only going on like this because some have said it's not really Goldsmith steals. And yes, Goldsmith is influenced by Stravinsky, but also Penderecki, just like Horner. And yes, as always, Horner synthesizes it all into his overall idiom, and writes music that works on its own. And certainly plenty of it is just sharing this particular horror idiom.
Stravinsky, Varése and Bartok yes. but Penderecki? I'm pretty familiar with Goldsmith's oeuvre and have never heard anything resembling Penderecki in his music.
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To tide me over until the CD arrives, I did a very thorough comparison between the music heard in the film and Intrada's tracklist. It seems that almost everything is there. Intrada surely combines a few tracks (some of them are only about 10-20 seconds long in the film) and the track lengths seem to match everything in chronological order with the exception of the missing (?) "Melissa's Awakening" (even though it seems to be mentioned in the booklet). "Gluntz's Demise" is about 50 seconds longer than I can explain, so I'm very curious about that one.
Interestingly the length of the alternate end credits matches the length of the missing "Melissa's Awakening", but surely nobody would confuse the two? I also wonder if the "Snake Stinger" could actually be in the film. There's a 10-second coda after "Snake in the Bath" which would match its track length.
This is all speculation of course. Maybe someone who knows the film well and has received the CD already could shed some light on it?
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"Gluntz's Demise" is about 50 seconds longer than I can explain, so I'm very curious about that one.
I just got the new Intrada album and am loving it. SilentWitness, the longer length in "Gluntz's Demise" may account for the fact that the last portion of that cue is the bucolic music for when Vicky goes for a jog and encounters the German Shepherd (the "jog" music begins at the 4:07 mark of "Gluntz's Demise").
But this is terrific early Horner with a lot of cool orchestral effects to build tension.
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SilentWitness, the longer length in "Gluntz's Demise" may account for the fact that the last portion of that cue is the bucolic music for when Vicky goes for a jog and encounters the German Shepherd (the "jog" music begins at the 4:07 mark of "Gluntz's Demise").
Thank you, I took that into account. I suppose it's made up of three film cues: "Gluntz's Demise", "Lana Talks About Her Dream" and "Jogging". The film versions of those three combined clock in at 4:17, so I wonder what the rest may be. Maybe the intro to "Gluntz's Demise" is longer than what can be heard in the film. It may even be an independent cue, because the audio clip on Intrada's homepage begins with "Gluntz's Demise" as it begins on the unmentionable, not with what comes before. In the film there are about 30 seconds of music leading right into it.
The two film cues before "Gluntz's Demise" fit the length of "Kids in the Barn / Pluck It Out" whereas the next cue "This Century Is More Peaceful" is also the next cue in the film, so chronologically there's nothing else in the film to account for those 50 seconds.
By the way, the title "Pluck It Out" doesn't seem to be quite right for the earlier scene. An excerpt from "Kids in the Barn" is tracked to a much later scene in which Ernest Borgnine holds a gruesome sermon. The line comes from that scene. While "Kids in the Barn / Pluck It Out" is in all probability made up of two cues, the second one should probably have another title.
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Thank you, I took that into account. I suppose it's made up of three film cues: "Gluntz's Demise", "Lana Talks About Her Dream" and "Jogging".
Sorry for merely restating what you and c8 already pointed out regarding "Jogging"! I did discover that the music used in the scene in which Melissa wakes from a nightmare, gets a knife from a drawer, and runs out of the house into the forest looking for John (who is cozying up with Vicky) is part of "Gluntz's Demise." It starts at 2:14 and ends at 3:09 on the Intrada album.
The music written for the scene when "Lana Talks About Her Dream" starts at 3:55 and ends around 4:05 in the "Gluntz's Demise" cue.
The "Kids in the Barn/Pluck it Out" cue ends with the music written for the scene when Lana sees the spider crawling on the ceiling and William Gluntz approaches Martha's house (starting at 1:53 on the album). In the film, they fuse the "spider crawling on the ceiling" music with the music at the beginning of "Gluntz's Demise," as Martha's bedroom light goes on and Gluntz moves toward her window. However, it seems like the first couple of seconds of "Gluntz's Demise" are clipped in the film, but the Intrada album preserves every chilling second!
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SilentWitness, the longer length in "Gluntz's Demise" may account for the fact that the last portion of that cue is the bucolic music for when Vicky goes for a jog and encounters the German Shepherd (the "jog" music begins at the 4:07 mark of "Gluntz's Demise").
Thank you, I took that into account. I suppose it's made up of three film cues: "Gluntz's Demise", "Lana Talks About Her Dream" and "Jogging". The film versions of those three combined clock in at 4:17, so I wonder what the rest may be. Maybe the intro to "Gluntz's Demise" is longer than what can be heard in the film. It may even be an independent cue, because the audio clip on Intrada's homepage begins with "Gluntz's Demise" as it begins on the unmentionable, not with what comes before. In the film there are about 30 seconds of music leading right into it.
The two film cues before "Gluntz's Demise" fit the length of "Kids in the Barn / Pluck It Out" whereas the next cue "This Century Is More Peaceful" is also the next cue in the film, so chronologically there's nothing else in the film to account for those 50 seconds.
By the way, the title "Pluck It Out" doesn't seem to be quite right for the earlier scene. An excerpt from "Kids in the Barn" is tracked to a much later scene in which Ernest Borgnine holds a gruesome sermon. The line comes from that scene. While "Kids in the Barn / Pluck It Out" is in all probability made up of two cues, the second one should probably have another title.
I can confirm that, the cue which is listed on the unmentionable as "Melissa Awakens" is actually heard in full, on the track "Gluntz' Demise". The second part of the cue, which is when Jeff East steps outside the red car for a red herring moment, is what appears at the tail end of "Wind Blows Through Martha's Room".
I recieved my copy last night and have been listening to it all morning! A truly remarkable score that we are so lucky to have finally received.
Sadly, it seems the elements used to make the unmentionable fared better than some of the unreleased cues, which don't sound like they are in stereo at all. The sharp/crispness is very touch and go, which is a real shame. I've always felt this was a score that deserved so much better to be locked away and to rot.
Woes over, I'm glad I now have this to write to, to drive to, or just to listen to with a glass of wine!
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Thank you guys, this helps a lot! So apparently the album presentation is not strictly chronological. Never mind.
If I understand correctly, the "Melissa's Awakening" portion of "Gluntz's Demise" goes on until 3:55 and not until 3:09, as Chris stated? Then again I wonder why "Lana Talks About Her Dream" is only 10 seconds long. In the film it's more like 30. Although on closer listening it seems that the final 20 seconds are probably tracked from the beginning of "Kids in the Barn".
Glad to hear that the spider-on-ceiling music is present after all. And in full, no less. So that's what makes up the ending of "Kids in the Barn / Pluck It Out" (still a misleading title). I thought the second part would be the music from the scene in which Gluntz watches the house at night, but that seems to have been edited from "Incubus Painted on Wall".
I think now everything is accounted for. I suspect "Snake Stinger" is the short coda that can be heard when we see the dead snake disappear into the bath water?
Can't wait for my album!
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Thank you guys, this helps a lot! So apparently the album presentation is not strictly chronological. Never mind.
If I understand correctly, the "Melissa's Awakening" portion of "Gluntz's Demise" goes on until 3:55 and not until 3:09, as Chris stated? Then again I wonder why "Lana Talks About Her Dream" is only 10 seconds long. In the film it's more like 30. Although on closer listening it seems that the final 20 seconds are probably tracked from the beginning of "Kids in the Barn".
Glad to hear that the spider-on-ceiling music is present after all. And in full, no less. So that's what makes up the ending of "Kids in the Barn / Pluck It Out" (still a misleading title). I thought the second part would be the music from the scene in which Gluntz watches the house at night, but that seems to have been edited from "Incubus Painted on Wall".
I think now everything is accounted for. I suspect "Snake Stinger" is the short coda that can be heard when we see the dead snake disappear into the bath water?
Can't wait for my album!
SilentWitness, I listened to the cue again and I think this is the breakdown of "Gluntz's Demise" - comparing it to how these pieces of music are used in the film:
(a) "Gluntz's Demise" (0:00-2:13): William Gluntz looks in Martha's window and is stabbed
(b) Melissa with the knife (2:14-3:09): Melissa wakes from the dream, gets the knife, and goes outside.
(c) Unidentified (3:10-3:54): I haven't been able to find a source in the film for this bit yet. I'll see if I can locate it in the film!
(d) "Lana Talks About Her Dream" (3:55-4:06): I think you are right, SilentWitness: the musical extension of this piece in the film is likely tracked in from "Kids in the Barn/Pluck It Out."
(e) "Jogging" (4:07-the end)
Regarding "Kids in the Barn/Pluck It Out"... I wonder if early on in the recording process Horner and Craven decided to use that piece for two separate scenes in the movie, since as you point out it is used when the kids break into the barn (the cue plays through that scene in complete form) and when Isaiah gives the sermon. That may account for the fact that the same piece is actually given two titles.
I will say that "Gluntz's Demise" is a terrific 5-minute cue on this album! It reminds me of the longer cues Horner would assemble for albums from different bits of music.
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SilentWitness, I listened to the cue again and I think this is the breakdown of "Gluntz's Demise" - comparing it to how these pieces of music are used in the film:
(a) "Gluntz's Demise" (0:00-2:13): William Gluntz looks in Martha's window and is stabbed
(b) Melissa with the knife (2:14-3:09): Melissa wakes from the dream, gets the knife, and goes outside.
(c) Unidentified (3:10-3:54): I haven't been able to find a source in the film for this bit yet. I'll see if I can locate it in the film!
(d) "Lana Talks About Her Dream" (3:55-4:06): I think you are right, SilentWitness: the musical extension of this piece in the film is likely tracked in from "Kids in the Barn/Pluck It Out."
(e) "Jogging" (4:07-the end)
Thank you, Chris! I was hoping that the music in (c) would be the last 46 seconds of "Melissa's Awakening" and that maybe you just mistook the short pause for the end of the cue. Especially after TruPretender wrote I can confirm that, the cue which is listed on the unmentionable as "Melissa Awakens" is actually heard in full, on the track "Gluntz' Demise".
So if your track dissection is correct, we're left with two questions: Where are the last 46 seconds of "Melissa's Awakening" and what scene are those mysterious, as yet unidentified 46 seconds in "Gluntz's Demise" from instead? Everything else from the film seems to be accounted for.
Strange, too, that according to c8 the booklet only lists three sources for "Gluntz's Demise":
Gluntz’s Demise is made up of Gluntz’s Demise, Lana Talks About Her Dream, and Jogging.
As mystifying as all this is, it's actually great fun piecing this together with you guys. Helps me enjoy this release way before my CD arrives. So happy Intrada pulled this off.
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SilentWitness, I listened to the cue again and I think this is the breakdown of "Gluntz's Demise" - comparing it to how these pieces of music are used in the film:
(a) "Gluntz's Demise" (0:00-2:13): William Gluntz looks in Martha's window and is stabbed
(b) Melissa with the knife (2:14-3:09): Melissa wakes from the dream, gets the knife, and goes outside.
(c) Unidentified (3:10-3:54): I haven't been able to find a source in the film for this bit yet. I'll see if I can locate it in the film!
(d) "Lana Talks About Her Dream" (3:55-4:06): I think you are right, SilentWitness: the musical extension of this piece in the film is likely tracked in from "Kids in the Barn/Pluck It Out."
(e) "Jogging" (4:07-the end)
Thank you, Chris! I was hoping that the music in (c) would be the last 46 seconds of "Melissa's Awakening" and that maybe you just mistook the short pause for the end of the cue. Especially after TruPretender wrote I can confirm that, the cue which is listed on the unmentionable as "Melissa Awakens" is actually heard in full, on the track "Gluntz' Demise".
So if your track dissection is correct, we're left with two questions: Where are the last 46 seconds of "Melissa's Awakening" and what scene are those mysterious, as yet unidentified 46 seconds in "Gluntz's Demise" from instead? Everything else from the film seems to be accounted for.
Strange, too, that according to c8 the booklet only lists three sources for "Gluntz's Demise":
Gluntz’s Demise is made up of Gluntz’s Demise, Lana Talks About Her Dream, and Jogging.
As mystifying as all this is, it's actually great fun piecing this together with you guys. Helps me enjoy this release way before my CD arrives. So happy Intrada pulled this off.
I agree! Cheers, fellas! I'm glad I wasn't the only one curious about how this release was cobbled together.
The track 'Wind Blows through Martha's Room" has the final bit of Melissa Awakens, when John the Hittite goes out to investigate a noise and there is a red herring build up of music - it's the second part of the track. Hope that helps!
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Okay, I'm only going on like this because some have said it's not really Goldsmith steals. And yes, Goldsmith is influenced by Stravinsky, but also Penderecki, just like Horner. And yes, as always, Horner synthesizes it all into his overall idiom, and writes music that works on its own. And certainly plenty of it is just sharing this particular horror idiom.
Stravinsky, Varése and Bartok yes. but Penderecki? I'm pretty familiar with Goldsmith's oeuvre and have never heard anything resembling Penderecki in his music.
I think there are definitely passages in scores including The Omen, The Mephisto Waltz and especially Alien that are in the Penderecki/Ligeti/Lutoslawski post-war idiom- as well as in his concert for works Music for Orchestra and Christus Apollo (though I don't know those as well). Certainly not a defining sound, but there are aleatoric passages that are clearly in the same vein. As is the case when one partakes of the various threads of composition in a given period.
By the way, I ordered this not long after writing my post on Friday, so clearly I've already gotten over my trepidation based on influences.
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