Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 8:23 AM   
 By:   davefg   (Member)

I don't know what makes it unfair. Giacchino has had an abundance of opportunities to produce works of the caliber of his predecessors. He is widely regarded as being the embodiment of those composers, Goldsmith and Williams in particular. I see nothing wrong with comparing their output as it applies to testing that view.

Sorry it is unfair to compare him to Williams, Barry, or others? Why is that?


To be brutally honest I think he is way below many other composers if you are comparing him to Williams, Horner, Barry etc, However for as I've said I tried to judge Giacchino on his own merits in an attempt to be fair to him.

Did Bayona drop Velázquez or did the studio decide that they'd stick with the guy who had scored the hugely profitable previous film?

This might be the case. Frank Marshall who produced the previous entry is also working on the new Jurassic Park film. However the fact remains that Giacchino is scoring it.

. He doesn't score more than a handful of flicks a year, leaving plenty for Tyler, Zimmer and Desplat to snap up. When you score hugely profitable film after hugely profitable film and develop good relationships with rising talent, you will get offers out the wazoo

True however there are other composers who could have worked on some of the projects that Giacchino scored. Haven't studios been focusing on tent poll films in the last decade? There seems to be less films been made with a mid-sized budget. Giacchino has won a substantial share of those tent poll films. To be honest I'm amazed after scoring two massive flops in 2015 that Giacchino got so many offers afterwards.

Tyler I think is scoring very expensive B movies.

What irks me is that some here continue to talk derisively about him, instead of at least applauding him for not bowing to the current taste of film scores. He easily could have gone the Media Ventures route. He did not.

Had he done so do you think he would have scored the films that he has? I doubt it. I think he realised that he'd have better success if he avoided the Media Ventures route and that has been proven with the films that he has scored.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 8:32 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

I was disappointed with his score for DAWN OF THE POTA. Some thought it had touches of Goldsmith, but I'll be damned if I heard any. In fact, most of it reminded me more of stuff at the level of Paul Sawtell.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 8:46 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

I was disappointed with his score for DAWN OF THE POTA. Some thought it had touches of Goldsmith, but I'll be damned if I heard any. In fact, most of it reminded me more of stuff at the level of Paul Sawtell.

I - surprise - loved his DAWN score. And I was very happy that he incorporated parts of it in this new score.

Again, just because "some thought it had touches of Goldsmith" one should not blame Giacchino if it did not sound like Goldsmith. It sounded like Giacchino, just like Goldsmith sounded like Goldsmith.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 12:14 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I wrote a detailed reply to your earlier post, in which you wrote that we should be applauding Giacchino for using an orchestra at all, a reply that featured an opening sentence explaining why that's like giving an elementary school soccer player with limited talent but good networking skills a trophy for using the right ball. It was really quite brilliant in totality, and likely would have swayed many of you who still see Giacchino as our only hope for these modern times, despite his diminishing or at the very least stagnant compositional abilities. Alas, FSM broke the minute I hit the submit button and didn't even "surprise" post it despite the error message like it usually does.

I mean it, that reply would have really turned a lot of heads on this issue. Many people - those who have not blocked me - would say, "You know what, he made a lot of excellent points in his brilliant and far-reaching message board post. And he's right, I should call my parents more. I'm going to do that, right after I agree with him publicly that Michael Giacchino's scores sound like they were quality checked using one of those shitty beach speakers you get when you send in the Camel Cash from your dad's cigarette packs."

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)


Also, the fact that Giacchino loves big orchestral scores and composes themes with hummable melodies does not make him a composer with the qualities of Williams or other Silver Age legends.

Giacchino is a very capable composer. He has a gift for melody. And he has jumped at the chance and proven to show a wide range. Just this year alone with his three scores so far, every one of them takes a different approach, and for me, a very successful one.


Sorry what? Are we talking about the same composer? Hummable themes, gift for melody, does not describe Giacchino. It is precisely his lack of quality themes that makes his scores so forgettable. Most of his lauded themes are short motifs that don't get developed.

I'll give him props, his scores always seem to work well in the films. They just fall flat on the album in most cases. Thus why have very few scores of his in my collection. Even Star Trek (his first one) while interesting at times is seriously lacking as far as the main theme is concerned. His only saving grace is the Spock theme.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 12:58 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

His main Trek theme is a little Broadway, but I like it and its Batman Forever feel. I agree that his Spock theme/motif is solid.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 2:26 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Sorry it is unfair to compare him to Williams, Barry, or others? Why is that? They compose for films and there are standards that have been set. When those standards aren't met I point it out. Pretty simple.

Except for the fact that...

1.) Film score as you know it and I know it is not "en vouge" right now. Big scores, golden age scores, silver age scores - thats gone. Its passed. We don't have that coming out because Hollywood doesn't want it. Hell, short of it being a score that sells on the level of a Titanic, no one up on the hill is listening to you. Yes, some directors and producers WANT that on certain projects and Giacchino is taking most of those jobs ... but the sweeping majority isn't and won't sound like what you process as (subjectively) good.
2.) If the producer wants zither music, the composer is going to write it. If the director wants something simple, the composer is going to write it. If the studio wants a pop song... well, the composer may take a stab at it but chances are they'll just buy the rights and needledrop it. What the composer makes is not up to fans; its up to the film and the people involved. Anything else is moonshine *at best*.
3.) No one gives a candy ass what you want. Ever. Your standards are not what the people on the project or juggling the money want, and thats what counts if the composer wants to keep his job.

So the assumption you're making is beyond the pale. Maybe you don't like Giacchino - thats fine, I don't own a single album by Georges Delerue because he does nothing for me but that doesn't mean hes a bad composer, just that I don't like him. The difference there is a little less than subtle than the mild insult I'm about to leave: "Lighten up, Francis".

You're behind the times. Catch up or be ridiculed.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 2:27 PM   
 By:   TM   (Member)

Very much enjoying the end credits suite (as long as I remember to stop before the bonus track). Nice development of the melodies with Williams style rhythmic brass underpinning. Don't really care for the rest of the score, but then I have yet to meet a Planet of the Apes score I'm completely in love with.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 2:29 PM   
 By:   No Respectable Gentleman   (Member)

Just saw the flick. I've been critical of Giacchino but I must say I thought it had the best score I'd heard in a long time.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 10:02 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

Regardless of whether the producers wanted real themes the orchestrations speak for themselves indicating that he doesn't have the chops to write anything resembling a proper score. Giacchino has had numerous assignments over the past 7 years and nothing he wrote has indicated that he has the skill of writing a proper score in the form I would expect if he had the skill people assume he has.

I get it, there are limitations put on scores by producers but even with those limitations I would have expected something better than what we have gotten so far.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2017 - 11:16 PM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

Regardless of whether the producers wanted real themes the orchestrations speak for themselves indicating that he doesn't have the chops to write anything resembling a proper score. Giacchino has had numerous assignments over the past 7 years and nothing he wrote has indicated that he has the skill of writing a proper score in the form I would expect if he had the skill people assume he has.

I get it, there are limitations put on scores by producers but even with those limitations I would have expected something better than what we have gotten so far.


Okay, you are right and I am wrong. Giacchino is a bad composer and you´re the one who knows that for a fact.

Getting back to the topic of this thread: WAR FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES is a magnificent score.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2017 - 3:12 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Regardless of whether the producers wanted real themes the orchestrations speak for themselves indicating that he doesn't have the chops to write anything resembling a proper score. Giacchino has had numerous assignments over the past 7 years and nothing he wrote has indicated that he has the skill of writing a proper score in the form I would expect if he had the skill people assume he has.

I get it, there are limitations put on scores by producers but even with those limitations I would have expected something better than what we have gotten so far.


I think musically speaking he was given enough creative freedom on Tomorrowland and Doctor Strange. There's lots of rousing music in both, but neither are as fleshed out or complex as a "Williams" style score. Again it's the "action music" which is lacking the most.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2017 - 5:50 AM   
 By:   jfallon   (Member)

Granted I have not seen the film yet but surprised how little action music is on the soundtrack. The trailers make the film out to be an all out War film full of action.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2017 - 6:12 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

I get it, there are limitations put on scores by producers but even with those limitations I would have expected something better than what we have gotten so far.

Given that you have no limitations placed on you to make an argument, I can only concede in agreement with your words that you are indeed a Magellan trying to find intellect and instead planting your flag on an insurmountable stupidity. I salute you.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2017 - 6:48 AM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

Granted I have not seen the film yet but surprised how little action music is on the soundtrack. The trailers make the film out to be an all out War film full of action.
-------

This is one of the reasons this score appeals to me. I prefer moody, tense, atmospheric cues to crash bang wallop action. I'm really enjoying it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2017 - 7:38 AM   
 By:   Pedestrian Wolf   (Member)

I wrote a detailed reply to your earlier post, in which you wrote that we should be applauding Giacchino for using an orchestra at all, a reply that featured an opening sentence explaining why that's like giving an elementary school soccer player with limited talent but good networking skills a trophy for using the right ball. It was really quite brilliant in totality, and likely would have swayed many of you who still see Giacchino as our only hope for these modern times, despite his diminishing or at the very least stagnant compositional abilities. Alas, FSM broke the minute I hit the submit button and didn't even "surprise" post it despite the error message like it usually does.

I mean it, that reply would have really turned a lot of heads on this issue. Many people - those who have not blocked me - would say, "You know what, he made a lot of excellent points in his brilliant and far-reaching message board post. And he's right, I should call my parents more. I'm going to do that, right after I agree with him publicly that Michael Giacchino's scores sound like they were quality checked using one of those shitty beach speakers you get when you send in the Camel Cash from your dad's cigarette packs."


Shaun, I saw that post for five seconds before it auto-deleted, and all you did was write "Giacchino's music sounds bad" three times in three different fonts, then you copied and pasted the entire Wikipedia entry on Spin Doctors' "Two Princes." So actually, yes, it was a brilliant post.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2017 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I just wanted someone to by ME flowers for a change.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2017 - 9:19 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I just wanted someone to by ME flowers for a change.

Will Aristolochia Gigantea do?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 14, 2017 - 2:25 AM   
 By:   1977   (Member)

Of the younger generation of composers working in film today, could someone please provide me with a list of good composers and bad composers, so that I know whose music to listen to and whose to avoid. This is so that I don't accidentally listen to some music that I like, but which is by a bad composer.

Thanks.


PS: I really enjoy Michael Giacchino's music.

 
 Posted:   Jul 14, 2017 - 5:08 AM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

I was a huge Gia fan in his early days. I thought he was providing a break from the dominant style/approach in Holywood,scores at the time. After Lost, his style appeared to have evolved and it didn't resonate with me as much as it had originally. There were still exceptions like Let Me In and parts of Super 8 that I still enjoyed but a lot of his output just didn't connect with me the way it had. Of course all of us change and evolve over time. My listening tastes ended up moving away from contemporary film scores to classic ones (Golden and Silver Age) and also 20th century orchestral repertoire by the likes of Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Bartok, Mahler, Berg, Prokofiev etc etc. Returning back to my classical roots I made an interesting observation- guys like Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, even JN Howard in the late 90s/early 2000s, drew from the classical masters rather than an abundance of film scores in their approach, harmony, and structure. A lot of younger composers are drawing on film scores, or popular music, which is why it doesn't appeal to me as much.

There are exceptions of course- I love John Powell's music, especially for HTTYD series but even then, the second film score had lots of English classical composer evocations which is probably why it resonated with me so much. And his recent concert fare is terrific. Just this year Henry Jackman surprised me with his Mahlerian string theme for Kong (sadly underused mind you) but I was knocked out by his use of ambiguous harmonies and moving around a key centre. Of course Shapiro is a fave of mine and delivered a rousing classic film score to Captain Underpants. But I can make the distinction between liking something and what is bad. Anyone at Giacchino's level is not bad, they couldn't be otherwise they'd have no lasting career. If you don't like his music, fair enough. But to invalidate it because it doesn't measure up to your expectations and then label it "bad" is on you and not him. I still give each of his scores a chance not for some obscure notion that he has to impress me but because I liked what the guy did for many years and I'm hoping he can still deliver something that I can connect to. That's it.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2024 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.
Website maintained and powered by Veraprise and Matrimont.