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You know what? I was wrong to share that story, and I'm truly sorry that it's generating feelings like this.
No need to apologize. A lot of us on this forum appreciate your insider perspective on film and the industry. From my very small experience working in this field, it's a lot more complex and grey area than we as fans appreciate. Lots of personalities, viewpoints, committees and a lot of stuff ends up on the proverbial floor. Not an easy industry or field to get into.
I'm not really surprised at Williams' reaction. These themes are his babies and have lived with him for decades. To have this particular franchise interpreted by a difference composer with a different style, it had to be a bit jarring. And Giacchino's style is very much removed from Williams (no matter what people may think) nowadays. There are some superficial traits but they exist in very different compositional realms. Obviously it's personal taste if people like that or not. I personally haven't loved a Gia score since Ratatouille. but that's just me.
I appreciate hearing this story not because it validates my own opinion of Rogue One (which is similar to Ottman's Superman Returns) but just that Williams IS human, has his own likes and dislikes and that he's obviously very protective of the SW franchise, from a musical standpoint.
What I do find rather pleasant about this account is how he listed to composers' whose works I do respect. Powell has been a favourite of mine since he broke onto the scene in 1997 with Face Off. Even buried within the MV-RC style, I really dug his sense of harmony and his compositional choices. Powell is a smart composer too- he thinks a lot of about the music and how it works with the film and the subtext much like Goldsmith and JN Howard.
HTTYD2, for me, was a revelation. It moved away from "film score" more towards orchestral concert work. The nods to VW especially in the string writing just knocked me out. Then I heard his concert works and I was floored even more. My thought was "this guy was being held back by films" but even within the film context, he produced stellar work. "Death and Transfiguration" from Hancock is an amazing track.
Happy Powell is on the project and happier that he is in the top 2 choices of John Williams to handle his beloved SW music universe. 
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I welcome any inside information. And despite being a Giacchino fan (and a fan of his ROGUE ONE score) I do also welcome other composers taking on a Star Wars movie (only Williams really should finish the current trilogy).
As for Williams´ suggestion that Desplat should do SOLO and then immediately recommending Powell I do not think that this means he disliked Giacchino´s ROGUE ONE score.
He probably wanted to encourage a different sound from his own for these stand alone films - and Giacchino definitely was ordered to do a Williams pastiche. Something the maestro probably did not like so much, understandably, since he is the only one, of course, who can really deliver the true Williams sound.
Also, Giacchino really has scored too many major tentpole blockbusters so he might be overextended already.
I'm looking forward to John Powell doing another kind of Star Wars score, with a main theme by the maestro himself. Probably the most fun score of this year.
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Posted: |
Jan 1, 2018 - 12:20 PM
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By: |
MikeyKW
(Member)
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I often wonder if composers not involved with a particular film have a challenge of watching a film without beng constantly pulled out of it by the scoring choices made by the composer, wondering for example how they would have handled it.
Giacchino had a pretty impossible task here, directly following someone of the calibre of Williams, whose themes for the series are so well know and loved, and having to come up with something in the same vein, yet different enough to be original and not a copy.
I welcome any inside information. And despite being a Giacchino fan (and a fan of his ROGUE ONE score) I do also welcome other composers taking on a Star Wars movie (only Williams really should finish the current trilogy).
As for Williams´ suggestion that Desplat should do SOLO and then immediately recommending Powell I do not think that this means he disliked Giacchino´s ROGUE ONE score.
He probably wanted to encourage a different sound from his own for these stand alone films - and Giacchino definitely was ordered to do a Williams pastiche. Something the maestro probably did not like so much, understandably, since he is the only one, of course, who can really deliver the true Williams sound.
Also, Giacchino really has scored too many major tentpole blockbusters so he might be overextended already.
I'm looking forward to John Powell doing another kind of Star Wars score, with a main theme by the maestro himself. Probably the most fun score of this year.
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Posted: |
Jan 2, 2018 - 8:40 AM
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By: |
davefg
(Member)
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I welcome any inside information. And despite being a Giacchino fan (and a fan of his ROGUE ONE score) I do also welcome other composers taking on a Star Wars movie (only Williams really should finish the current trilogy).
As for Williams´ suggestion that Desplat should do SOLO and then immediately recommending Powell I do not think that this means he disliked Giacchino´s ROGUE ONE score.
He probably wanted to encourage a different sound from his own for these stand alone films - and Giacchino definitely was ordered to do a Williams pastiche. Something the maestro probably did not like so much, understandably, since he is the only one, of course, who can really deliver the true Williams sound.
Also, Giacchino really has scored too many major tentpole blockbusters so he might be overextended already.
I'm looking forward to John Powell doing another kind of Star Wars score, with a main theme by the maestro himself. Probably the most fun score of this year.
I agree with most of this. Giacchino needs to take a break from the tentpole blockbusters. I like to see other composers getting these type of opportunities. David Arnold tweeted how much he'd like to do another big film score. He would have been my number one candidate for Rouge One. Happy that Giacchino didn't get Han Solo to be honest his Rogue One score was just poor.
As for Williams writing a theme for this film, I think it lends some weight to the recent rumors that this film is in some trouble. Disney clearly need Williams to lend some credibility to the project and try and win back some of the fans who were unhappy about The Last Jedi. It's a shame that Powell was unable to handle the whole score. He's an extremely capable composer.
With regards to the future of the music of Star Wars, my concern would be that when Williams is unable to write any more music, that the Excs will ask composers to drawn on the themes from the previous films, leaving little in the of adding to this universe. Rogue One, Han Solo and the other spin-offs, if they get off the ground, would have been a perfect opportunity for one composer to do that.
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I for one am glad Williams is taking an active role (if that is the case). And I'm also glad -- even if I don't fully agree with his choices* -- of suggesting composers.
Aside from some blips, namely "The Incredibles", I find Giacchino's scores to be mostly forgettable, in one ear and out the other seconds afterwards, cold, too calculated, lifeless, and themes I can't latch on to.
He's certainly not the second coming of Williams and he also doesn't have what composers like Williams, Goldsmith, and Horner had.
* = Really, Powell and Desplat? Is Williams so un-informed on the crop of talented composers out there he can only go with name composers (or maybe "Safe" choices for big-budget films)?
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I for one am glad Williams is taking an active role (if that is the case). And I'm also glad -- even if I don't fully agree with his choices* -- of suggesting composers.
Aside from some blips, namely "The Incredibles", I find Giacchino's scores to be mostly forgettable, in one ear and out the other seconds afterwards, cold, too calculated, lifeless, and themes I can't latch on to.
He's certainly not the second coming of Williams and he also doesn't have what composers like Williams, Goldsmith, and Horner had.
* = Really, Powell and Desplat? Is Williams so un-informed on the crop of talented composers out there he can only go with name composers (or maybe "Safe" choices for big-budget films)?
Agree with your assessment of Giacchino. His harmonic sensibilities changed radically after LOST where open, sparse, triadic piano chords became a staple of his style. It initially worked very well in contrast to say a heavily dramatic moment but when it recurred in various movies like Star Trek it became a one-note type of device for me and I tuned out. Plus his bridges between sections always seem abrupt and somewhat patched together where as composers like Horner or Goldsmith or Williams to name three had beautiful transitions between theme groups. Maybe it's because he's busy, maybe because he uses a DAW, maybe it's a stylistic choice, who knows?
I will disagree with your second bit about Desplat and Powell. They aren't just "safe choices" or "name" composers. There's a lot of stylistic originality with these two, combined with technical chops, something that's still important in composer/musician circles. Powell may have started in RC but as his career has developed, it's clear he used that as a platform as a means to an end to write music. Listen to any number of his interviews and you will hear a very smart, savvy composer who puts music first and foremost. And he's even eluded to having a falling out with Zimmer some time ago (though at the time of the interview when he disclosed this, they had patched things up). I've found over recent years Powell's sound has moved towards modern classical (ie concert hall) and diverged from the "film score" sound. Parts of HTTYD 2 could have easily been part of a symphonic work and which shared more harmonic sensibilities to VW and Elgar as opposed to trailer music or other film composers.
We can speculate all we want about whether Williams disliked Giacchino's Rogue One, or why he mentioned Desplat or Powell by name, but proof will be in the pudding when Solo comes out this year. Will Powell defer to his film sound with kinetic rhythms, a bit of electronics? Or will he channel the strong emotional content and fluidity of writing from his beautiful concert works The Prize Is Still Mine or Prussian Requiem? It will be interesting and exciting to hear it when it's released- unless he does something so cool but not what producers expect and is kicked off the project..... I wish I didn't fear this but in this modern Hollywood climate, I kinda expect something stupid like that to happen....
I'm not a pessimist, I am a realist. 
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I too think that bringing Williams in on this project is an attempt to polish its reputation up a bit before it's released. And, as much as I have enjoyed The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, I have to say I was kind of looking forward to hearing what Powell was going to bring to the table with a clean slate, so I am a little disappointed in that regard.
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They could make shaky-cam Star Wars films scored by Zimmer and with tracked in rocks and pop songs and they'd still rake in a ton of money. You basically have to make a second holiday TV special to get the hate going.
The bar is rather low now.
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If those Godwaful Saw and Fast and Furious movies can keep spawning more Godawful sequels, there's surely room for mediocre or worst Star Wars films.
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