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First I'd like to apologise for mentioning this in a thread designed to discuss the score, but I was just a tiny bit surprised that it hasn't even been mentioned at all, it is in the end part of the music soundtrack. I'd be perfectly happy to move further discussion to the non-music discussion side if need be, though I haven't got a great deal more to say on the subject, but would have been interested to see others' views on this. I also didn't give too much credence to the front page of The Sun, as all Brits know it's a rag not known for being a paragon of virtue. But then seeing the film myself the question of royalties to the monster many of us once liked quite a bit as an eccentric glam rock star, does more than raise an eyebrow. He's pretty much on the same level of that other fiend, radio DJ Jimmy Savile, so the use of his song is questionable and shouldn't be ignored altogether.
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Why is it rated ' R'.
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First I'd like to apologise for mentioning this in a thread designed to discuss the score, but I was just a tiny bit surprised that it hasn't even been mentioned at all, it is in the end part of the music soundtrack. I'd be perfectly happy to move further discussion to the non-music discussion side if need be, though I haven't got a great deal more to say on the subject, but would have been interested to see others' views on this. I also didn't give too much credence to the front page of The Sun, as all Brits know it's a rag not known for being a paragon of virtue. But then seeing the film myself the question of royalties to the monster many of us once liked quite a bit as an eccentric glam rock star, does more than raise an eyebrow. He's pretty much on the same level of that other fiend, radio DJ Jimmy Savile, so the use of his song is questionable and shouldn't be ignored altogether. American audiences don't know who these guys are and why they are reviled. Doubt the producers do either. ?
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First I'd like to apologise for mentioning this in a thread designed to discuss the score, but I was just a tiny bit surprised that it hasn't even been mentioned at all, it is in the end part of the music soundtrack. I'd be perfectly happy to move further discussion to the non-music discussion side if need be, though I haven't got a great deal more to say on the subject, but would have been interested to see others' views on this. I also didn't give too much credence to the front page of The Sun, as all Brits know it's a rag not known for being a paragon of virtue. But then seeing the film myself the question of royalties to the monster many of us once liked quite a bit as an eccentric glam rock star, does more than raise an eyebrow. He's pretty much on the same level of that other fiend, radio DJ Jimmy Savile, so the use of his song is questionable and shouldn't be ignored altogether. American audiences don't know who these guys are and why they are reviled. Doubt the producers do either. ? I think you're right on both counts, though the second is more questionable. I'd have thought when they went after the rights to include the song, possible problems surrounding it would have flashed up from somewhere. The producers are far more intelligent to not know ANYTHING about this. Of course the inclusion of the song is an artistic decision, and it actually works well in the scene. https://screenrant.com/joker-movie-gary-glitter-song-controversy-royalties-explained/
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Thanks to all for the background info. Don't know how I feel about this. It's certainly a quandary.
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My thoughts exactly Bruce. Because I'd love to see something about the film do well at the Oscars. As far as I'm concerned the central performance is worth the ticket alone. If Pheonix had done this in a good stage performance for instance I'd have had the same reaction. The film comes across as totally his film, because what he does is great. A total world away from you perceive as a comic book superhero movie, which it most certainly is not. And now we have this creative decision that could potentially stall all possible accolades it rightly deserves, but for this one possible problem. If the director thinks that using 'Glitter's song is a case of 'who cares' we'll ride this out, it could potentially backfire on him. The fact that a film as good as this comes from someone who directed what I consider throwaway films, is remarkable, and shows what he's capable of. Especially considering it's a so-called comic flick, which it isn't really. It's the first remotely serious film on a theme originally generated by the famous comic strip. So I actually have my fingers crossed. But knowing what has been going on in recent years with Weinstein etc., it's hard not to divorce this from this great film. BUT for a silly insistence on a particular piece of source music. Can anyone here really think that a future soundtrack expansion for instance could possibly include this song? I very much doubt it. For the record here... I actually have a video still, of my own toddler (then) daughter dancing to Gary Glitter's 'I Love You Love'! From one of his many greatest hits compilations. As a pre-teen myself I LOVED the guy, and would run in the house off the street if my mother shouted me in because his latest record was being performed on our then amazing chart showcase show Top of the Pops. You lot really have no idea how family friendly this guy (and DJ Savile) was. It's a heavy heart here, not some little bit of gossip. His most chilling song NOW is 'Do You Want to Touch'. Lyrics include "Do you Wanna Touch Me There, Where, There?,".. Yep. Rather chilling...
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I loved Michael Jackson's music up until BAD. I will continue to enjoy it. But if he had been. a child abuser during that time , I don't know how I would respond. I'll just pretend(?) it all started afterwards.
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I guess none of you listen to Wagner. Israeli doesn't!
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I loved Michael Jackson's music up until BAD. I will continue to enjoy it. But if he had been. a child abuser during that time , I don't know how I would respond. I'll just pretend(?) it all started afterwards. You're dead to me. His, how I've longed to hear you say those words to me#?
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This is a film and score for those of us who don't normally give a rat's ass about superhero stuff. Well technically this isn't a superhero movie. Depends on your point of view. While its superhero Batman is still just a child and of no bigger importance to the story, it is the origin of a supervillain story and as such belongs at least fully to the tradition of superheroes and superhero comics, where also entire issues are sometimes devoted to backstories or villains or even "civilian" life of "superheroes". So I see this fully as part of the classic "superhero" tradition of "one-shot" story lines and therefore it belongs to the superhero genre, even if the only superhero in it has only a cameo.
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I like the premise put forth in TDK ( and GOTHAM) . JOKER wouldn't have come into being without BATMAN.
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I guess none of you listen to Wagner. I've listened to a fair bit, and was especially entranced by some of it after it's use by John Boorman in his Excalibur in the early eighties. It lead to me listening to it often with my dad around that time. But it's hardly the same. Even if accusations of genuine anti-semitism and racism is as damning as has been suggested, he is of course long dead. It's easier to disassociate the music from the man. He doesn't get royalties like Gary Glitter will, and this has actually caused some in the UK to boycott Joker. I don't mean I've read it online. Discussing the film at work only this week, a friend said her husband (a real superhero nerd) has decided against it because of this. Obviously the producers and the film co will be sleeping soundly given the massive amount the movie has already taken. And also, if Wagner is good enough for the great (Jewish) Max Steiner (don't forget the "the man who invented film music....if..lived... in this century the top film composer" quotes), he's still good enough for me. Not that I've listened to his stuff for quite a while. As Bruce says, these things leave me wondering exactly how I feel about the whole thing. I loved Joker, but also feel a little sad that a little research, or care didn't lead to another piece of music being used. I have no doubt that if Todd Phillips had been on one of our chat shows he'd have been asked about it. I suppose the question is whether or not he gives a sh*t (who cares about a little country like Britain etc.), but his answer would be interesting. I would like to think his artistic sensibilities would be able to reassure folks.
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I like the premise put forth in TDK ( and GOTHAM) . JOKER wouldn't have come into being without BATMAN. Nicholai is right when he says that the movie is like a one-shot. There have been many versions of origins in DC comics, and not all within the continuity of the main titles. Anyone remember those strips that had a what if? idea back in the 60s (when I read comics) labelled 'an imaginary story'? As if all the rest were true! lol. So yep, if the film is good I can live with stories that don't have to fit within some overall continuity of the franchise. Sadly for me I find Gotham dull, one thing I can't say about Joker.
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Yeah, they do like to use colour palettes that make it look as if it was made then.. I was between the ages of 9 and 19 and while I loved some bits it's not for no reason the 70s are often called 'the decade that style forgot'.
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