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I think we should all crossfade Marcato's ramblings, so as to create a (somewhat) more coherent listening experience.
I concur.
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Oh, I agree that producers should try to nail the artists intentions, not start to meddle too much on their own. The guideline should always be to present the film score as a coherent listening experience on its own.
But if pieces were written for a film, the simple act of listening to them in isolation is "meddling with their intentions." So adjustments need to me made to create a cohesive listening experience, and not everyone will agree with all of them.
Maybe we could all be happy if film score albums played in real time, with the silence between each of the cues representing the precise length of time in which no music occurs at all in the film. That way, we are being true to the intentions of the composer and the director.
Word.
Just as films should have a black frame between each edit as to preserve each individual camera shot!
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I'm one of those who prefer an album of 5 second cues if that's what the composer wrote.
I'm also not a fan of the cross-fading.
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Posted: |
Oct 5, 2019 - 2:05 PM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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I think no one is stopping you from proving that point by producing CDs.
I'm not sure what you think I need to "prove".
I clearly said that I fully realize it's for my own enjoyment.
Maybe you missed the words that were right there. 
Actually, that is exactly what I expect of a producer: deliver a finished product that I like. When I get a CD, I expect a finished product that can be listened to without having to do assembly work on my own. That would be especially tricky if I'm completely unfamiliar with the music and have never seen the film (nor would want to).
Again, I said I don't "expect" a producer to know what I like--he or she doesn't know me from Adam.
However, it is very nice when their choices jibe with my preferences.
And, again, I'm talking about REproducers--not the original producers--that compile the material for a reissue that comes sometimes decades later.
Also, I think we are talking about scores with which we are very familiar--not exclusively, but mostly.
That often seems to make a difference, though I don't know exactly why.
The guideline should always be to present the film score as a coherent listening experience on its own.
And my guideline is, whenever possible, present the pieces as they were recorded and if I do not find it personally coherent, I can make it thus.
Why would your guideline be less valid than my own?
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The crossfade between The Leaving and The Search sounds fine in Conan The Barbarian, especially in the Varèse edition, but it would have been more effective to have the full take of each cue, with or without a pause between them.
That is what Basil wanted, he told me as much.
Who should the label pay attention, the composer or you?
Ford A. Thaxton
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Posted: |
Oct 5, 2019 - 2:39 PM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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The only example you posted that I am familiar with is "Escape from the Planet of the Apes," and it's been ages since I've spun it.
Well, to be fair, it seems like the "A Fish Called Wanda" score wouldn't engender anywhere NEAR the same level of interest as an Apes score--to a score fan, that is..
It's a fun little album--very brief, though, as I said.
As I said, there are probably subtle crossfades on some albums that you love, and you don't even notice them.
If it's an album I love (and would therefore be very familiar with), then yeah, I notice.
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Oh, I agree that producers should try to nail the artists intentions, not start to meddle too much on their own. The guideline should always be to present the film score as a coherent listening experience on its own.
But if pieces were written for a film, the simple act of listening to them in isolation is "meddling with their intentions." So adjustments need to me made to create a cohesive listening experience, and not everyone will agree with all of them.
Maybe we could all be happy if film score albums played in real time, with the silence between each of the cues representing the precise length of time in which no music occurs at all in the film. That way, we are being true to the intentions of the composer and the director.
The Music was not Created for listening experience but to fit a scene. - and should be presented as such
This is not classical Music - it’s filmmusic
You can make listening experience at home. - THAT IS the listeners job, not the producers
If a producer did it Then it takes away the listeners Way of excluding cues they do not want
Okay, let's take this to its rather illogical extreme: The music on a soundtrack album is there for LISTENING not the film - but you want to make your own listening experience at home because you think you're entitled and the producer of the album (or composer) should bend to your wishes because... well, no, it's THEIR album, not yours. Your choice is whether to purchase, not to remake their art, but these days people can do what they want - but it is not the producer's job to pander to that.
So, a filmmaker makes a film. You buy a Blu-ray. Do you think because you are the viewer at home that it's the viewer's job to make his/her own viewing experience, i.e. rearrange scenes, delete scenes, etc. Because that's where this leads. And that, with all due respect, is kind of DISrespectful to the artists who make the work you want to un-make.
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Posted: |
Oct 5, 2019 - 2:51 PM
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By: |
OnyaBirri
(Member)
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Okay, let's take this to its rather illogical extreme: The music on a soundtrack album is there for LISTENING not the film - but you want to make your own listening experience at home because you think you're entitled and the producer of the album (or composer) should bend to your wishes because... well, no, it's THEIR album, not yours. Your choice is whether to purchase, not to remake their art, but these days people can do what they want - but it is not the producer's job to pander to that.
To be clear, Marcato is the one expecting all producers to bend to his whims. I have said repeatedly in the thread that there are different approaches, and no one approach will please everyone. C'est la vie.
So, a filmmaker makes a film. You buy a Blu-ray. Do you think because you are the viewer at home that it's the viewer's job to make his/her own viewing experience, i.e. rearrange scenes, delete scenes, etc.
If the viewer has the right software and wants to take the time to re-edit the film, that is the viewer's business. I would love to see a version of "Breakfast at Tiffany's" without Mickey Rooney. Or George Peppard, while we're at it.
Because that's where this leads. And that, with all due respect, is kind of DISrespectful to the artists who make the work you want to un-make.
You'll be pleased to know that I am not selling my own versions of the albums, and they are not competing with your releases. They are for my own enjoyment. And if you consider that disrespectful, then color me disrespectful. I'm paying money for your albums, and that is what matters. You get the $19.99 whether I listen as-is or use the CD as a coaster.
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Posted: |
Oct 5, 2019 - 3:34 PM
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By: |
OnyaBirri
(Member)
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I didn't say that listening to the music outside of the film constitutes tampering
I know, I'm saying that it constitutes tampering, based on the logic you are applying.
I said a reissue producer who was not a part of the original team, who combines unrelated cues, could constitute tampering.
And remember, I said "CAN be", not "always are".
Furthermore, we all know there are instances where movies are tampered with long after the fact.
It's not such a different organizing principle as one might think.
At least one can say that such tampering is usually performed by one or more members of the original production team--I guess in a general sense that's the only way it even remotely approaches being okay.
My analogy is valid.
I respectfully think it is a false analogy. We can agree to disagree.
My point is this: A producer who goes the Marcato route will make Onya unhappy, and a producer who goes the Onya route will make Marcato unhappy.
The difference is this: Marcato is asking the world to bend to his whims, and Onya learned a long time ago that the world does not bend to his whims.
This is my final word on this topic.
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But maybe if he yells at the world really really really hard...
Hey, can we crossfade planets?
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Okay, let's take this to its rather illogical extreme: The music on a soundtrack album is there for LISTENING not the film - but you want to make your own listening experience at home because you think you're entitled and the producer of the album (or composer) should bend to your wishes because... well, no, it's THEIR album, not yours. Your choice is whether to purchase, not to remake their art, but these days people can do what they want - but it is not the producer's job to pander to that.
To be clear, Marcato is the one expecting all producers to bend to his whims. I have said repeatedly in the thread that there are different approaches, and no one approach will please everyone. C'est la vie.
So, a filmmaker makes a film. You buy a Blu-ray. Do you think because you are the viewer at home that it's the viewer's job to make his/her own viewing experience, i.e. rearrange scenes, delete scenes, etc.
If the viewer has the right software and wants to take the time to re-edit the film, that is the viewer's business. I would love to see a version of "Breakfast at Tiffany's" without Mickey Rooney. Or George Peppard, while we're at it.
Because that's where this leads. And that, with all due respect, is kind of DISrespectful to the artists who make the work you want to un-make.
You'll be pleased to know that I am not selling my own versions of the albums, and they are not competing with your releases. They are for my own enjoyment. And if you consider that disrespectful, then color me disrespectful. I'm paying money for your albums, and that is what matters. You get the $19.99 whether I listen as-is or use the CD as a coaster.
To be clear, I was responding to Marcato.
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