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Posted: |
Apr 12, 2023 - 10:10 AM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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Boughtfan - Regarding IAT episode, "The Cave Family Swingers", do you have any infomation about when the prescores were recorded for that episode (i.e. the "dinosaur stew" instrumental and overdub). Were they on 1/16/67 or another date? Also, there is a kind of Scottish jig number at the end of that show - do you know if that was tracked from a library cue/other production or if it was recorded specifically for that episode.
TVS -
The "Swingers" session also included cues for two GI shows, The Second Ginger Grant and Slave Girl and included only three players: drums (John W's brother Jerry), bass and guitar. Session was three and three-quarter hours (9:00 - 12:45), Don Ray is credited as orchestrator (an indication he composed the cues).
That's all I have on it. I'll look at the episode, try to determine if the cues mentioned were written for GI or tracked from CBS Library (the latter being rare once Mort Stevens took over from Herschel Burke Gilbert).*
* - I recall only one instance where an S1 GI cue was tracked into an S2 show. S3, as I remember, doesn't contain even a single S2 cue (though there are some tracked IAT cues in late season GI shows, both series ending production about the same time in 1967).
Hi Boughtfan, I managed to get a copy of the IAT tape recorded on 1/16/67. It featured a lot of the underscores for Cave Family Swingers but not the underscore for the "World Famous Ballet" segment (the cue used towards the end of the episode - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SLYLui2RQ at 21:40). According to my notes, the episode was filmed in December 1966/ January 1967 so I imagine it was recorded sometime between those two months. Do you have any additional information or even an idea of possible sessions it might have been recorded at? I don't expect you to, but I thought I would ask just in case.
Also, regarding the Gilligan Island cues, do you know if individual cues were ever given titles or simply just a cue number (i.e. GIL 203, GIL 204, etc)?
I can help with the second inquiry, TVS. All of the GI cues I saw included titles, Fried having some really clever ones, one that comes particularly to mind is “Fellowship of the Ring” from S3’s Ring Around Gilligan (mad scientist returns to island, controlling the castaways’ actions with hypnotizer rings).
Otherwise, Fried and Don Ray generally used general descriptive titles or dialogue references: Periscope, Japanese Flag, Sky Rocket, Laundry Man, Hot Syrup, Vampire Stew, Wasps, Cold Neck, Enter Lord B., Cheerio, Chaps, Hot Foots, Rehearsal, Giant Spider, Opening, etc.
Williams’ pilot score has titles such as Zoomsville, Skipper Snub, Gabby Girls, Who Goes There?, Long Distance, HELP, etc.
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I'm looking for the "Friendly Physician" episode tapes (part of the 2-25-1966 session with Gunsmoke and Perry Mason) but it doesn't show in CBS archive at UCLA. Anyone know where it might be?
In my experience, the CBS archive at UCLA is about 80% complete. For some reason, there are tapes which just seem to be missing with no explaination. Perhaps they were lost through the years or maybe they were simply miscataloged. When I can't find something by date, I try looking by reel number in case the date was typed in wrong in the finding aid. In this case, Feb 10, 1966 seems to be the last recording held for the 1965-66 year, meaning the others must have been lost or misplaced. Maybe someone else has some better information, but that's the best I could come up with.
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Boughtfan (or anyone else): Do you have a date for the GI partial of "Man with a Net" from Season 3?
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TVS - Man with a Net was recorded September 1, 1966 CBS Studio Center, double session with Ring Around Gilligan, the latter being Fried’s last score for the series (though he wrote one cue, a teaser, for one additional show).
Ring Around Gilligan (complete score) - Composed and Conducted by Gerald Fried
Man with a Net (substantial partial) - Composed by Don B. Ray (uncredited, sadly) Conducted by Morton Stevens
Boughtfan - thanks as always for your help. A few more things maybe you can help me with...
Do you know for what episode the following cues were originally recorded for and the date of recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErE6K2pVklw - 0:55 & 3:08 (same basic cue), 16:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cresnvGjggE&t=699s - 9:54, 31:28 (from Slave Girl, but I'm not sure if it was tracked), 37:04 (same as 16:04 from other video, I think it comes from Season 3 GI or maybe even IAT???).
Also, do you know the date of final recording session for GI cues? According to my research, I think it's 1/16/67. Do you of any later sessions?
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Posted: |
May 28, 2023 - 4:20 AM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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TVS - Man with a Net was recorded September 1, 1966 CBS Studio Center, double session with Ring Around Gilligan, the latter being Fried’s last score for the series (though he wrote one cue, a teaser, for one additional show).
Ring Around Gilligan (complete score) - Composed and Conducted by Gerald Fried
Man with a Net (substantial partial) - Composed by Don B. Ray (uncredited, sadly) Conducted by Morton Stevens
Boughtfan - thanks as always for your help. A few more things maybe you can help me with...
Do you know for what episode the following cues were originally recorded for and the date of recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErE6K2pVklw - 0:55 & 3:08 (same basic cue), 16:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cresnvGjggE&t=699s - 9:54, 31:28 (from Slave Girl, but I'm not sure if it was tracked), 37:04 (same as 16:04 from other video, I think it comes from Season 3 GI or maybe even IAT???).
Also, do you know the date of final recording session for GI cues? According to my research, I think it's 1/16/67. Do you of any later sessions?
Hi, TVS. Broughtfan (short for Broughton fan) here.
All the above was composed by Don B. Ray, conducted by Morton Stevens, recorded September, November-December 1966:
YT 1
:55, composed for “Splashdown,” probably rec. for 11-22 library with Gilligan Goes Gung-Ho (actually a Gunsmoke/Run Buddy Run session)
3:08, alternative version
16:04, guessing rec. for 11-22 library, possibly 11-9 Kidnapper (rec. with Fried IAT session)
YT 2
9:54, composed for The Producer 9-23 (cue title, “Drive, Drive, Drive”)
31:24: composed for, respectively, The Hunter, Court Martial (latter for Lord Admiral Gilligan Dream sequence), Hunter/Court Martial rec. 12-12 with addition cues for Hunter rec. 12-20 with Lovey’s Secret Admirer (Cinderella dream sequence) as was the case on 11-22, the former primarily a Gunsmoke session, the latter, for CBS Call To Danger (Stevens TV pilot)
37:04, not positive, but believe this was recorded on 11-22 (GI library session).
Will look through notes as there were five CBS sessions that took place before 1-16-67 Slave Girl/IAT Cave Family Swingers session (involving just three percussionists), though I have no idea what was recorded on the aforementioned sessions as I don’t have paperwork between 12-20 and 1-9-67 CBS sessions.
Hope this helps.
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Posted: |
May 28, 2023 - 4:21 AM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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TVS - Man with a Net was recorded September 1, 1966 CBS Studio Center, double session with Ring Around Gilligan, the latter being Fried’s last score for the series (though he wrote one cue, a teaser, for one additional show).
Ring Around Gilligan (complete score) - Composed and Conducted by Gerald Fried
Man with a Net (substantial partial) - Composed by Don B. Ray (uncredited, sadly) Conducted by Morton Stevens
Boughtfan - thanks as always for your help. A few more things maybe you can help me with...
Do you know for what episode the following cues were originally recorded for and the date of recording:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErE6K2pVklw - 0:55 & 3:08 (same basic cue), 16:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cresnvGjggE&t=699s - 9:54, 31:28 (from Slave Girl, but I'm not sure if it was tracked), 37:04 (same as 16:04 from other video, I think it comes from Season 3 GI or maybe even IAT???).
Also, do you know the date of final recording session for GI cues? According to my research, I think it's 1/16/67. Do you of any later sessions?
Hi, TVS. Broughtfan (short for Broughton fan) here.
All the above was composed by Don B. Ray, conducted by Morton Stevens, recorded September, November-December 1966:
YT 1
:55, composed for “Splashdown,” probably rec. for 11-22 library with Gilligan Goes Gung-Ho (actually a Gunsmoke/Run Buddy Run session)
3:08, alternative version
16:04, guessing rec. for 11-22 library, possibly 11-9 Kidnapper (rec. with Fried IAT session)
Don Ray composed quite a number of cues for 11-9 session. On that day partials were recorded for GI and IAT (latter comp. Fried) along with a couple of cues for WWW and Gunsmoke, a rare instance of dramatic series cues recorded on a sitcom session (instead of the other way around).
YT 2
9:54, composed for The Producer 9-13 (cue title, “Drive, Drive, Drive”)
31:24: composed for, respectively, The Hunter, Court Martial (latter for Lord Admiral Gilligan Dream sequence), Hunter/Court Martial rec. 12-12 with addition cues for Hunter rec. 12-20 with Lovey’s Secret Admirer (Cinderella dream sequence) as was the case on 11-22, the former primarily a Gunsmoke session, the latter, recorded with Call To Danger (Stevens TV pilot)
37:04, yes, same cue as on YT 1 (16:04)
Will look through notes as there were eight CBS sessions that took place before 1-16-67 Slave Girl/IAT Cave Family Swingers session (involving just three percussionists), though I have no idea what was recorded on five of these sessions as I don’t have paperwork between 12-20-66 and 1-3-67 (when an IAT, additional Lovey’s Secret Admirer cues were recorded, IAT cues comp. Morton Stevens).
Hope this helps.
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Will look through notes as there were eight CBS sessions that took place before 1-16-67 Slave Girl/IAT Cave Family Swingers session (involving just three percussionists), though I have no idea what was recorded on five of these sessions as I don’t have paperwork between 12-20-66 and 1-3-67 (when an IAT, additional Lovey’s Secret Admirer cues were recorded, IAT cues comp. Morton Stevens).
Hope this helps.
Hi Broughtfan - Your knowledge is amazing! Thanks so much!
Incidentally, I am also doing research into Run Buddy Run material (composed of course by Jerry Fielding). I wasn't aware recording sessions for that show were still going on into November 1966. The last session I knew of was in the middle of October 1966. Do you know if that November session was the last?
And regarding the Ring Around Gilligan/Man With A Net session, do you know how many cues of each show were recorded on that day?
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Posted: |
May 28, 2023 - 9:25 PM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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Will look through notes as there were eight CBS sessions that took place before 1-16-67 Slave Girl/IAT Cave Family Swingers session (involving just three percussionists), though I have no idea what was recorded on five of these sessions as I don’t have paperwork between 12-20-66 and 1-3-67 (when an IAT, additional Lovey’s Secret Admirer cues were recorded, IAT cues comp. Morton Stevens).
Hope this helps.
Hi Broughtfan - Your knowledge is amazing! Thanks so much!
Incidentally, I am also doing research into Run Buddy Run material (composed of course by Jerry Fielding). I wasn't aware recording sessions for that show were still going on into November 1966. The last session I knew of was in the middle of October 1966. Do you know if that November session was the last?
And regarding the Ring Around Gilligan/Man With A Net session, do you know how many cues of each show were recorded on that day?
Some new info for you, TVs, (re: YT videos):
YT 1
Cue titles:
Recorded on 11-9-66 Kidnapper session (episode itself is mostly tracked with Fried’s cues, GF gets screen credit) #0515
Composed by Don Ray
:55/3:08 - Redball Express (2 arrangements includes 2 flugelhorns), not used in Kidnapper show, so probably composed for “Spashdown”
16:04 - Save Me! (used in Kidnapper act-out, G hanging upside down). Have in notes ‘glissando trombones,’ which are heard at cue start.
YT 2
Don Ray
9:54 - Drive, Drive, Drive (The Producer), rec. 9-13-66
31:24 - And They’re Off (The Hunter), Cyrano De Gilligan (Court Martial), both rec. 12-12-66
37:04 - Save Me! (see above)
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Posted: |
May 28, 2023 - 9:35 PM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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Will look through notes as there were eight CBS sessions that took place before 1-16-67 Slave Girl/IAT Cave Family Swingers session (involving just three percussionists), though I have no idea what was recorded on five of these sessions as I don’t have paperwork between 12-20-66 and 1-3-67 (when an IAT, additional Lovey’s Secret Admirer cues were recorded, IAT cues comp. Morton Stevens).
Hope this helps.
Hi Broughtfan - Your knowledge is amazing! Thanks so much!
Incidentally, I am also doing research into Run Buddy Run material (composed of course by Jerry Fielding). I wasn't aware recording sessions for that show were still going on into November 1966. The last session I knew of was in the middle of October 1966. Do you know if that November session was the last?
And regarding the Ring Around Gilligan/Man With A Net session, do you know how many cues of each show were recorded on that day?
Tvs -
From my research:
Recorded Studio Center, 1 September, 1966 (1:30-5:45):
Man With A Net (Ray, partial) 12 cues by Don Ray including “Ginger” (Glenn Miller-like clarinet thing associated with Ginger)
Ring Around Gilligan (Fried, complete): Counted 21 cues, “Successful Caper” (castaways bring coconuts to Balinkoff) used a second time, alternate, edited with crescendo at end (act-out, G in water).
Report doesn’t indicate order scores were recorded, but assume GF’s was first as it included nearly double number of cues.
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Some new info for you, TVs, (re: YT videos
Thanks for that! I'm always interested to hear the cue titles, because I know the music so well but I often have to make up my own cue titles when identifying them.
Do you also have cue titles for:
The first and last cue in "Voodoo" (Cue nos. 247 & 276)
The first cue in "Gilligan the Goddess" (No. 411)
The cues in "Pass the Vegetables Please" where Gilligan develops super strength and Mrs Howell becomes overly energetic after eating the sugar beets.
The last cue in "Gilligan's Mother In Law".
And also like I asked previously, regarding the Ring Around Gilligan/Man With A Net session, do you know how many cues of each show were recorded on that day? It's okay if you don't, but I figure you're the best person to ask.
Thanks again!
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Posted: |
May 28, 2023 - 10:16 PM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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Some new info for you, TVs, (re: YT videos
Thanks for that! I'm always interested to hear the cue titles, because I know the music so well but I often have to make up my own cue titles when identifying them.
Do you also have cue titles for:
The first and last cue in "Voodoo" (Cue nos. 247 & 276)
The first cue in "Gilligan the Goddess" (No. 411)
The cues in "Pass the Vegetables Please" where Gilligan develops super strength and Mrs Howell becomes overly energetic after eating the sugar beets.
The last cue in "Gilligan's Mother In Law".
And also like I asked previously, regarding the Ring Around Gilligan/Man With A Net session, do you know how many cues of each show were recorded on that day? It's okay if you don't, but I figure you're the best person to ask.
Thanks again!
Voodoo
Teaser
Act-in (Skipper looking for G): Art Collectors (tuba solo)
Act-out: Arty Artifacts (mysterious flute, big brassy end)
Epilogue
Reverse Vood (act-in)
Stuck-Up (tag with JW End Music over title)
Pass the Vegetables
Firewood (G picks up tree trunk)
Strong Man (G breaks off branches)
Energy (Mrs. H scene in hut, spins on dining table)
Muscles (G lifting Skipper)
I think G’s Mother in Law cue was called Best Man, but not positive. Pretty sure I have this info written down as I definitely recall the title ‘Test of Knives.’
FYI: The drum cue by Ray heard in Slave Girl is called ‘The Natives Are Restless.’ To my knowledge, only percussion cues were recorded expressly for the episode.
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FYI: The drum cue by Ray heard in Slave Girl is called ‘The Natives Are Restless.’ To my knowledge, only percussion cues were recorded expressly for the episode.
That's great, thanks again for all your help!
Yes, I know of only three cues recorded for Slave Girl and all are just drum cues (Rec. 1/16/67) so you are probably right.
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FYI: The drum cue by Ray heard in Slave Girl is called ‘The Natives Are Restless.’ To my knowledge, only percussion cues were recorded expressly for the episode.
Two more things BF:
If you have the information, could you tell me how many cues were recorded for "The Producer" session. I think that was also an IAT session for "Mark Your Ballots". Do you know the number of cues for that too?
Also, I know I've mentioned this before, but the IAT cue that appears at 21:38 for "Cave Family Swingers" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SLYLui2RQ) is the only one I have not been able to identify a recording date for.
I know you couldn't identify a date either but is there a range of dates you could narrow it down to. The show was filmed in late December 1966 so imagine it was recorded in Dec. 1966/Jan. 1967. I know you said in a previous post you don't have information from 12-20-66 to 1-4-67. Is it possible it was recorded between these dates. I know it's all guesswork, but if you can narrow it down or give me some likely dates, I would really appreciate it.
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Posted: |
May 29, 2023 - 5:22 AM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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FYI: The drum cue by Ray heard in Slave Girl is called ‘The Natives Are Restless.’ To my knowledge, only percussion cues were recorded expressly for the episode.
Two more things BF:
If you have the information, could you tell me how many cues were recorded for "The Producer" session. I think that was also an IAT session for "Mark Your Ballots". Do you know the number of cues for that too?
Also, I know I've mentioned this before, but the IAT cue that appears at 21:38 for "Cave Family Swingers" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SLYLui2RQ) is the only one I have not been able to identify a recording date for.
I know you couldn't identify a date either but is there a range of dates you could narrow it down to. The show was filmed in late December 1966 so imagine it was recorded in Dec. 1966/Jan. 1967. I know you said in a previous post you don't have information from 12-20-66 to 1-4-67. Is it possible it was recorded between these dates. I know it's all guesswork, but if you can narrow it down or give me some likely dates, I would really appreciate it.
TVs-
From my notes, it looks like Mort did 14 cues (including all the “Hamlet” arrangements), Don Ray, 5 cues. There was a guide track recorded 6-17-66 (with a Fred Steiner Gunsmoke, his final series score) but this may have been piano recorded (for staging purposes) at end of Fred’s session. Only Fred is listed as orchestrator for the session, so guessing it was something like this.
Will see what I can find out about IAT cue. Yes, Producer was recorded with IAT Mark Your Ballots and some cues for WWW ep The Big Blast. Joel Davis, like Don, a CBS music supervisor, is listed as one of the orchestrators (usually meaning composer), but not sure if he worked on Ballots or Blast.
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Posted: |
May 29, 2023 - 5:32 AM
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By: |
Broughtfan
(Member)
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FYI: The drum cue by Ray heard in Slave Girl is called ‘The Natives Are Restless.’ To my knowledge, only percussion cues were recorded expressly for the episode.
Two more things BF:
If you have the information, could you tell me how many cues were recorded for "The Producer" session. I think that was also an IAT session for "Mark Your Ballots". Do you know the number of cues for that too?
Also, I know I've mentioned this before, but the IAT cue that appears at 21:38 for "Cave Family Swingers" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SLYLui2RQ) is the only one I have not been able to identify a recording date for.
I know you couldn't identify a date either but is there a range of dates you could narrow it down to. The show was filmed in late December 1966 so imagine it was recorded in Dec. 1966/Jan. 1967. I know you said in a previous post you don't have information from 12-20-66 to 1-4-67. Is it possible it was recorded between these dates. I know it's all guesswork, but if you can narrow it down or give me some likely dates, I would really appreciate it.
The dance sequence music at 21:38 sounds like, to my ears, a library cue, perhaps from CBS Radio day’s when Wilbur Hatch headed department. The series was coming to an end, so I doubt the money would have been spent to record with orchestra when it could be tracked with something from the library (not as common a practice after Mort took over department, though there must have been exceptions). Also, there’s some kind of audio glitch near the end, which may have been extant or intentionally put in because of how the filmed sequence ends. But my guess is it’s a library track recording.
While performing this Joe Ross and Imogene Coca must have been thinking ‘in NY we worked with Sid Caesar and Phil Silvers and Nat Hiken...the best. We come to LA and now we’re doing THIS?! Talk about hitting ‘rock’ bottom!
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There was a guide track recorded 6-17-66 (with a Fred Steiner Gunsmoke, his final series score) but this may have been piano recorded (for staging purposes) at end of Fred’s session. Only Fred is listed as orchestrator for the session, so guessing it was something like this.
Thanks again for your help, Broughtfan. I actually have a copy of the tape for 6-17-66 and it is indeed just piano underscore. Incidentally, whoever is playing the piano on that session is terrible! Clearly someone who is not a professional piano player because they make so many mistakes.
Thanks also for your help regarding the IAT cue from "Cave Family Swingers". I thought it sounded like a library cue for the same reasons you deduced. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to find an original cue sheet for that episode, although the chances of finding one would be practically zero.
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