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Yeah, because of the “pedantic” bit (I’m certainly guilty of that at times), I assumed it was me too,...
hhw has it right. It wasn't you, Yavar. No way.
And I can say that as one who is also "certainly guilty of that at times" myself.
Likewise, no one likes to see this happen, including anyone who suspects it will.
I know I'm right that it was me.  And YOU are completely right that no one likes to see this happen. It's funny to me when people who have presumably blocked me apparently have the ability to read my posts. In any case, it's also funny to me that they then go after someone who is, I don't know, call me crazy, call me Bwana, call me Ishmael, trying to be helpful. Which is ALL any post I made during the first campaign was about. Number of posts by me in THIS iteration prior to the lovely comments by you-know-who? Two brief posts, neither of which were opinionated, needling, pedantic, lecturing, or haranguing. Two. In my experience, and I don't mean this in an opinionated, needling, pedantic 'you should' lecturing watchdog way, if you don't reach 18 to 20% of your goal in the first three days you're not going to fund. And if they do another, which I hope they will, what was working for a brief time were the constant updates. Do them in the first three days. And give yourself a break before starting a new campaign, at least a couple of weeks, or let the current Intrada wrap up.
"Good thing I can't, nor will, hear what they have to harangue about...." I don't identify as a "they". I identify as an opinionated, needling, pedantic, lecturing, 'you should' lecturing watchdog. Oh, I forgot - "they" won't be seeing this post.
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Hello all,
Thank you all for your comments and support of our efforts to bring these two early James Horner scores to life.
As you might have seen in the latest KS notification this campaign didn’t meet its goal, either. But we are Perseverance.
However, we have been working A LOT on these two scores, and we think it will be such a shame to let all that work go to waste, forcing us to 'shelve' them. That being said, and the fact that we are very passionate about this project (and a few others already in the works), there is a major chance there will be a 3rd (the charm one?) attempt to make this happen.
It certainly won't be as 'fancy' as the current one. Everything has already been presented in detail, so lots of elements, such as main artwork, mock-ups, etc will be used again.
We are still ironing out details, e.g. total costs, tiers, etc. Nothing is final yet.
What is important at this stage is to have a general idea whether James Horner fans are interested in having THE DRESSER recorded, in addition to - hopefully - a few cues from THE HAND via the individual stretch goals.
If there is enough support this time around, we might even record both scores back-to-back. But it is important that we know if there is interest!
Now, based on the reconstruction thus far, THE DRESSER score is north of 20 minutes long, consisting of 11-13 players. That includes 4 variations of the Main Title, an adaptation of Grieg’s In the Hall of The Mountain King, and several recorded effects as used in the film, among others.
Having said that, putting such projects together is costly, and everything humanly possible is being done to bring those down to an affordable level for both fans, backers, the production team, and the label. Bear in mind that through Kickstarter the entire production is being funded, not just the sessions.
Let me break down a few of the basic elements required for a production such as this, hoping to put any doubts to rest.
These elements are:
1. music reconstruction/restoration (a labor-intensive process done by the project’s orchestrator, taking several weeks/months to complete, with hundreds of hours of work). In addition, the orchestrator/producer supervises the sessions, editing and mixing stages.
2. Proofreading (a 2nd pair of eyes and ears, working with the orchestrator, double checking everything is on the level).
3. music preparation (another labor-intensive process that can literally make or break a session)
4. recordings sessions
5. additional musicians (e.g. Boy Soprano, Blaster Beam)
6. editing, mixing
7. mastering
8. artwork
9. liner notes
10. product manufacturing + shipping costs
11. operational costs (travelling, lodging, administrative tasks, etc.)
12. Kickstarter Fees (approximately 10% of the goal)
For this project we have the great privilege of being supported by the Horner Estate, and Ronald Harwood’s family. In addition, film music royalty like Matt Dunkley, Gloria Cheng, Craig Huxley accepted our invitation to be part of this project. Furthermore, The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra will be performing the scores, reconstructed by none other than Nikiforos Chrysoloras – an orchestrator with a proven track record working with some of the leading figures in our industry, having worked on several Horner arrangements and trusted by the Estate itself. Finally, major players in the industry have endorsed our project, including Intrada.
The only element missing to make this a truly magnificent recording, and the label’s first (of many), is your full support.
What say you?
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Hello all,
Thank you all for your comments and support.
As the person who's jotting down the music, I can tell you that the length of the score as of this moment is indeed north of 20 minutes long, I'd say between 23-25, with the 4 versions of the Main Title & the Grieg piece, which has been adapted by Horner using the 11-13 player ensemble.
Having said that, I'd like to believe that the main goal here is to have ALL the music recorded. Right?
There will be options to get the music in both digital and physical formats for which the price will be, most likely, lower than initially suggested, considering the 3rd iteration of the campaign is still a work a progress. Also, if at least one of the stretch goals for THE HAND is met, there will be probably another 10-15 mins of music added to the total length.
It won't be possible to cover the production costs if the price goes below the $20 mark for any format.
When it comes to physical media, the minimum CD run is 300 units and it costs about $1K to press (based on various elements, e.g. printing, case, booklet, design, UPC code, wrapping, distribution, etc.) with the next price break at 500 units. When it comes to Blu-ray audio for the Dolby Atmos mix the minimum is 1000 units, and that's why there will be a stretch goal for those.
To my knowledge, the manufacturing cost remains the same, despite having 1 second or 80 minutes of music on the disc.
All these together along with the rest of the elements Robin pointed out and the fact that approx. 10% goes back to Kickstarter drive the price up! E.g. if the entire production for THE DRESSER costs, lets say, $20K the main goal has to go up to $22K, and that's just for the KS fees alone.
Finally, in terms of THE HAND stretch goals, let me shed some light on how we are looking into those. Each stretch goal will be be based on the combined cost of a single 4-hour session, and the orchestra size, which for this score is between 44-62 players, PLUS Craig Huxley's Blaster Beam!
Do you think you can help us make this happen?
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if recent campaign reached 25k$ you already know the support you have, right?
If $25K is the most support we can get, we will happily work with that. We will get a stunning recording and world premiere release of THE DRESSER, in both Stereo & Dolby Atmos mixes. A pretty decent start, if you ask me!
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I applaud your perseverance (no pun intended) and thank you so much for your continued efforts!
Personally, my main interest lies in THE HAND which has been on my wish list ever since I first watched the film in 1987/88. This has caused me to go way over my initial budget on the renewed Kickstarter campaign. I don't think I would pledge nearly as much if THE DRESSER was the main attraction. It would be a nice bonus, but frankly I'd mostly be interested in the 11 minutes of actual score featured in the film and less so in the bonus cues or the Grieg adaptation which I don't even remember from the film, even though I've recently re-watched it. Very curious how all this will develop. Best of luck!
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There is much to parse here. You've got a twenty-minute score (sorry, four versions of the main title and a classical piece does not make it a longer score than twenty minutes - I'd venture to say that without the three extra main titles and the classical piece, it would be under twenty minutes of actual music from the movie.
You've got a very small number of musicians. Why is it necessary for an ensemble that size to record overseas, when you could use the AFM low-budget pressing agreement and record it here in any number of nice studios and save yourself airfare for heaven knows how many people, hotels, per diems, etc? Or use non-union musicians - and there are plenty of great ones in LA. Or do it in a right-to-work state with union pros. Many ways to make it happen. Given the brevity of the score, I cannot imagine musicians would run more than five or six grand. Studio lockout for a day (if you even need a day) would be around 2500. I don't know what Orchestrator is taking, but it surely it can't take this up to 25K.
I do understand that you want to do additional things from The Hand. I don't think anyone wants a few cues from that score, they'd want the score. Having a twenty-three-minute CD for The Dresser only also seems wacky, but maybe everyone would be fine with it? Look forward to other opinions on this and everything in this post is meant to be helpful. And we're not even talking about how to do a successful campaign.
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Posted: |
Jun 30, 2024 - 3:42 PM
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By: |
GoblinScore
(Member)
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There is much to parse here. You've got a twenty-minute score (sorry, four versions of the main title and a classical piece does not make it a longer score than twenty minutes - I'd venture to say that without the three extra main titles and the classical piece, it would be under twenty minutes of actual music from the movie.
You've got a very small number of musicians. Why is it necessary for an ensemble that size to record overseas, when you could use the AFM low-budget pressing agreement and record it here in any number of nice studios and save yourself airfare for heaven knows how many people, hotels, per diems, etc? Or use non-union musicians - and there are plenty of great ones in LA. Or do it in a right-to-work state with union pros. Many ways to make it happen. Given the brevity of the score, I cannot imagine musicians would run more than five or six grand. Studio lockout for a day (if you even need a day) would be around 2500. I don't know what Orchestrator is taking, but it surely it can't take this up to 25K.
I do understand that you want to do additional things from The Hand. I don't think anyone wants a few cues from that score, they'd want the score. Having a twenty-three-minute CD for The Dresser only also seems wacky, but maybe everyone would be fine with it? Look forward to other opinions on this and everything in this post is meant to be helpful. And we're not even talking about how to do a successful campaign.
Breaking my self imposed and deserved banishment for wankerism, to absolutely agree with Mr. Kimmel a thousand percent.
I really wanted to hear everything initially proposed.
Contributing to a mini....wait, what was the short lived Varese imprint, mini classics (Those Secrets, Under The Volcano)....album is uninteresting. A download of said work, or any/all proposed....is absolutely no thanks. Any downloads I've purchased are either lost in old media or forgotten. Physical for me, only, thanks.
Back to Papillion's isolation dungeon......
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I didn't fund this for 2 reasons:
1) Neither score is that interesting to me
2) If they were, I'm hesitant to fund anything being handled by Perseverance Records
I agree. These scores are not interesting to me as a huge Horner fan.
Perhaps that I am not a horror movie or score fan contributes to this.
I personally would just love a proper cd - maybe in the format of the wonderful Collages CD, of his wonderful Horsemen music, maybe with other concert works like Forest passage and Spectral Shimmers.
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Thanks to everyone who is organizing the Kickstarters or helped in any way! I contributed to both and I will happily back the next and every project that might follow.
Personally I liked the reward option that included the 10 Perseverance soundtrack releases. Should that feature in the next Kickstarter, I would choose that one again.
Good luck with the third try and see you there! 
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I donated mainly for 'The Dresser', but I'm also very interested in 'The Hand'. If another campaign were to be launched with just the music for 'Dresser', I would be there again. But I can imagine that many people won't take part because the CD is so short. Perhaps 'The Dresser' could be paired with a musically suitable concert piece?
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Not my business to make judgements or assumptions about what's best to do in these circumstances. I think the usual rule of supply and demand must always apply. As an admirer of James Horner's music I hope the most can be made out of pocket money from fans, but recording is an expensive business and you cannot do it for peanuts.
On a more general note, it seems to me that lately there is perhaps too much confidence in going the crowdfunding route for soundtrack releases. I sincerely hope this won't become the standard methodology for all future ventures.
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Like haines says above, I don't see the need to go all the way to Prague (expenses-wise) to record what might end up just being a 20+ minute score featuring 12 players.
Also, I doubt that many will be interested in a shorter suite/selection of cues from THE HAND. I know I'm not.
Are 'Seattle Symphony' still a thing?
I have stacks of albums by them, via Varese, which are pretty good.
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