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 Posted:   May 28, 2013 - 12:11 PM   
 By:   John Mullin   (Member)

No, it was the studio. They had final cut, and chose to exclude the director and her co-writer from the final stage of editing. The final score - by coincidence, by Carter Burwell - was composed without her input. Lisa Cholodenko was still allowed to do press for the movie and to play the awards circuit.

Point is, these things happen a lot in the movie industry, and most of the time the public at large is unaware of it. I kind of feel that that's how it should be... the behind the scenes drama is interesting to read about after the fact, but if it starts to warp one's opinion of a movie before you see it, then I think it really sabotages the experience.

 
 Posted:   May 28, 2013 - 6:19 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I'm with johnmullin. Only the final product is what we should be judging, not how it got there.

It's easy to paint the studios as the big bad bullies, but "Thor: The Dark World" has a budget upwards of $200 million. Nothing can be left to chance. Unfortunately, that means that there isn't a lot of room for personal or quirky choices.

To me, the trailer for this movie looks like a bunch of hooey. But that's just me.

 
 Posted:   May 28, 2013 - 6:20 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Meanwhile…
http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/carter-burwell-marvel-thor-2-scor/

Some "exclusive"!

 
 Posted:   May 28, 2013 - 11:13 PM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

No, it was the studio. They had final cut, and chose to exclude the director and her co-writer from the final stage of editing. The final score - by coincidence, by Carter Burwell - was composed without her input. Lisa Cholodenko was still allowed to do press for the movie and to play the awards circuit.

Point is, these things happen a lot in the movie industry, and most of the time the public at large is unaware of it. I kind of feel that that's how it should be... the behind the scenes drama is interesting to read about after the fact, but if it starts to warp one's opinion of a movie before you see it, then I think it really sabotages the experience.


True, too much reported behind the scenes drama makes me watch the movie in a different way.

Still, I find it very odd if studios hire a particular director and then keep him out of the editing room. Directing is just as much about editing and arriving at the final version.

A studio should choose a director who will be on the same wavelength. To hire someone else, watching the dailies and then kick him out, putting everything together by committee, cannot result in a very good film since the material itself has the director´s sensibility.

Of course, this is common practice these days on big budgeted blockbusters.

But THE KIDS ARE ALRIGHT was a small budget independent film, wasn´t it? If even these films do not reflect the director´s vision anymore, something is truly rotten at the core.

 
 Posted:   May 29, 2013 - 4:56 AM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

A studio should choose a director who will be on the same wavelength. To hire someone else, watching the dailies and then kick him out, putting everything together by committee, cannot result in a very good film since the material itself has the director´s sensibility.

It could be they were on the same wavelength until, say, test audiences reacted poorly, or the suits started seeing the film which wasn't how they pictured it, or any of a number of other things that can result in changing wavelengths. (And remember, Taylor isn't the first director attached to this project either; originally it was Patty Jenkins, and rumor has it that Portman was upset when she left the project and was less interested in being involved after that, so there was already some tension regarding that. So who knows what's happened or why?)

 
 Posted:   May 29, 2013 - 7:49 AM   
 By:   John Mullin   (Member)

But the reality is that sometimes you just don't know until you put it together and have a look. Individual scenes could look good to everyone on the set and play well when you watch the dailies on DVD or in an early edit away from the film... but when you put it all together for the first time, it can be pretty jarring, sometimes revealing big problems that no one really picked up on when looking at the parts on a microlevel.

That's just how it works, and I think that the people behind the scenes should be allowed to experiment with a bit of privacy. One of the worst things about the internet and sites like Ain't It Cool News is that they'll post reviews of scripts and test screenings: Works in progress. It removes the filmmakers' ability to "try something" lest a scathing report be smeared all over the internet about how bad it is, basically killing the picture long before it is even finished.

THE GODFATHER II, one of my all-time favorites, went through several iterations before they arrived at the final version. Since the dual timeline structure of that film was a bit unusual, they had to experiment with it in order to find something they felt worked. They apparently had a few disastrous screenings of it where the intercutting was a bit more intense than it ultimately wound up being in the finished film. They _had_ to do those versions in order to understand why they weren't really functioning that well.

 
 Posted:   May 29, 2013 - 9:18 AM   
 By:   Mike Esssss   (Member)

I'm with johnmullin. Only the final product is what we should be judging, not how it got there.

Without getting too far off the rails, WORLD WAR Z will be an interesting test case for this philosophy (with which I wholeheartedly agree). Beset by the dreaded "extensive reshoots," early buzz seems to be "surprisingly" positive. I say surprisingly because the filmmakers have argued that the changes were made to improve the film, not save it, but everyone assumes the worst before seeing a frame of it.

Hell, just look at JAWS. It overcame a nightmarish production to become one of the best movies ever made.

 
 
 Posted:   May 29, 2013 - 9:36 AM   
 By:   Vermithrax Pejorative   (Member)

Good point on JAWS. Also TITANIC was being written off as a huge bomb before it became....THE BIGGEST FILM EVER!!

 
 Posted:   May 29, 2013 - 9:40 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Nobody expects a chef to create a great recipe just by choosing ingredients and mixing them up. We expect him to taste it, and have others taste it. Same thing goes for movies. You make educated guesses about how it's all going to come together, but once it's together, a lot of what you thought it would be goes out the window. You have to watch it, and you have to watch others watching it. And you make decisions from there.

I completely agree, it's nothing but destructive when reviews of rough cuts are plastered all over the internet. People seem to love to think they've caught the studios with their pants down, but that nakedness is just part of the process.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 1:09 PM   
 By:   jfallon   (Member)

Any word on the Thor replacement composer? Surely they must have picked a new one by now. Fingers crossed for Doyle's return.

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 1:16 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Doyle is probably busy. He's probably starting work on "Jack Ryan", probably fresh off if not just finishing the video game "Puppeteer: Hero Heads", and probably just about the time the film opens, he'll need to start writing "Cinderella" in order to make the March, 2014 release date.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 6:50 PM   
 By:   jfallon   (Member)

Bummer. Thanks for the update Justin.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 7:13 PM   
 By:   ddddeeee   (Member)

Jack Ryan and Puppeteer are finished (I'm not sure if JR is recorded but Doyle is definitely done writing) while Cinderella doesn't start shooting until near the end of the year.

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 7:15 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Cool -- so he's got time. But I have a feeling after going through one score, the studio will be pushing a composer of their own, and it's not the same director from the last film.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 9:17 PM   
 By:   desplatfan1   (Member)

Well, the fact that he was in talks to coming back was a good sign, but since that we have a composer confirmed and we still don't know who it is, it's a bad sign.

If it was Doyle, we would know it from the beginning.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 10:34 AM   
 By:   voiced   (Member)

'Jack Ryan' has some pick-up sessions still to take place. Patrick isn't doing 'Thor 2'.

European fans will be treated to two concerts of Patrick's music within the year, December 1st in London and March 31st in Belfast. More news will follow soon.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   ddddeeee   (Member)

'Jack Ryan' has some pick-up sessions still to take place. Patrick isn't doing 'Thor 2'.

European fans will be treated to two concerts of Patrick's music within the year, December 1st in London and March 31st in Belfast. More news will follow soon.


WHAT!? Oh man I can't wait for that Belfast one.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 10:43 AM   
 By:   voiced   (Member)

'Jack Ryan' has some pick-up sessions still to take place. Patrick isn't doing 'Thor 2'.

European fans will be treated to two concerts of Patrick's music within the year, December 1st in London and March 31st in Belfast. More news will follow soon.


WHAT!? Oh man I can't wait for that Belfast one.


:-) I thought you'd be pleased.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 12:07 PM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

Brian Tyler!

http://bit.ly/129kTpM

-Erik-

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 12:11 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

FilmMusicReporter.com is reporting Brian Tyler has signed on as the new composer.


Doesn't this man ever say "No" to anything?

 
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