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I think it ages quite well. Some 90s scores I go back to haven't as much. But this has a timeless quality to it. The Love Theme is one of my all time faves. Tragic and lyrical.
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I think Kilar's is a quite unique and creative take on the Dracula story, from any era. It rather stands in its own class. Superb stuff.
yes indeed. the liner notes that include Doug Adams' observations are quite good as well. It gives more context to the original score. Terrific LLL package, as per frickin' usual (sorry, I had to quote Rocket from GotG).
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I bought this album and thought it was great, but there is one thing I don’t understand; maybe someone can explain it to me?
The liner notes say:
“Knowing that the music heard in the film was heavily edited, we decided to present this album with the score as Wojciech Kilar intended it to be heard, prior to all the editorial changes.”
I tried this on the track “The Storm (Original Version)” and ran the number parallel to the storm sequence of the movie - but the music on the CD was much shorter and no longer matched the movie.
I understood the quoted statement in the liner notes to mean that Kilar saw the finished film in the final cut and wrote his music to go with it, which was later changed. But then “The Storm” should actually fit the scene in the film, shouldn’t it?
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I bought this album and thought it was great, but there is one thing I don’t understand; maybe someone can explain it to me?
The liner notes say:
“Knowing that the music heard in the film was heavily edited, we decided to present this album with the score as Wojciech Kilar intended it to be heard, prior to all the editorial changes.”
I tried this on the track “The Storm (Original Version)” and ran the number parallel to the storm sequence of the movie - but the music on the CD was much shorter and no longer matched the movie.
I understood the quoted statement in the liner notes to mean that Kilar saw the finished film in the final cut and wrote his music to go with it, which was later changed. But then “The Storm” should actually fit the scene in the film, shouldn’t it?
Presumably the film itself was also re-edited after Kilar recorded that cue...
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I think it is more a matter of the "european" approach to scoring, were the composer see some scenes/the movie and/or read the script and writes music cues that do not necessarly fit exactly with the cuts and timings of the film, but which are intended to be edited to the film by a music editor. Like Ennio Morricone did for The Thing.
You make it sound like there is one way of scoring a film in Europe that everybdoy subscribes to. I don't think that's true.
Not everybody in Europe works that way, and even those that do work that way sometimes don't work that way all the time.
But, yes, sometimes that's how films are scored, even in America—to create a library of music that isn't written specifically to a timed cue sheet.
And you can understand why. Even when the music is written specifically to times cue sheets, the score is often still mashed up in the edit and used like a bank of library music. See: almost all the Star Wars films.
Cheers
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Posted: |
Sep 15, 2022 - 5:02 AM
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By: |
danbeck
(Member)
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You make it sound like there is one way of scoring a film in Europe that everybdoy subscribes to. I don't think that's true.
Not everybody in Europe works that way, and even those that do work that way sometimes don't work that way all the time.
But, yes, sometimes that's how films are scored, even in America—to create a library of music that isn't written specifically to a timed cue sheet.
That's why I putted "European" under quotes. I know it is not the rule, but I think this way of scoring is/was more common in Europe. Morriconne sometimes scored more freely (The Thing) and other times applied strict timings on his music, even some "Mickey-mousing".
In fact that's a bit how Shawn Murphy, as quoted in Tim Greiving's liner notes, also describes the score:
Killar gave Coppola exactly what he asked for - a score unlike anything else in Hollywood... but it arrived in an unespected form. (...) "I think there was probably, initially a conceptual miscommunication about how to approach film scoring," says Shawn Murphy (...) "This is not just true of this guy in Poland, but true of a lot of European composers - they don't necessarily write scores that are cued to the picture. They write pieces of music that go with the picture, and then it's up to a music editor to actually fit the pieces of music that they write to the picture specifically." But a soluction was quickly worked out: record all the music that Killar brought, in a multitude of variations, and then fit it to picture in the cutting room. And that's exactly what Coppola and his music editor did.
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The problem, however, is that the track on the CD is much shorter than the scene in the film. Even though Kilar’s composition may not have been intended to fit certain scenes, it stops way too early. In the film, shrill piccolo flutes are heard at the point where the werewolf sees Mina. Also on “The Storm (Original Version)” you can hear these sounds at the end, but if you run this music to the film, then these shrill sounds sound while Lucy is ghosting through the maze - and during the werewolf attack the music is already long gone.
In the liner notes, Kilar is quoted as saying:
“When I met with Coppola in Paris, we sat there for a few days, and in the end he said, ‘Listen, I’m a director, I made the film. You’re a composer, you’ve seen the film. Do what you want.’”
It sounded to me as if Kilar saw the finished film, the final cut version, and composed his music for it. When I read the passage I quoted in the liner notes and the title of the track with the addition “Original Version”, I thought that the composer intended this music to be heard in this form throughout the entire storm sequence in the film.
Of course, it’s possible that Kilar saw a different cut in which the storm sequence was shorter, but there's nothing about that in the booklet, and in that case I would find the statement that you hear the music as it was originally intended before it was edited somehow misleading.
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Posted: |
Sep 15, 2022 - 7:56 AM
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By: |
danbeck
(Member)
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It sounded to me as if Kilar saw the finished film, the final cut version, and composed his music for it. When I read the passage I quoted in the liner notes and the title of the track with the addition “Original Version”, I thought that the composer intended this music to be heard in this form throughout the entire storm sequence in the film.
Of course, it’s possible that Kilar saw a different cut in which the storm sequence was shorter, but there's nothing about that in the booklet, and in that case I would find the statement that you hear the music as it was originally intended before it was edited somehow misleading.
I think "original version" means it was the original track as composed and recorded by Killar (to diferentiate it from the edited album track with the same name).
The fact that it does not precisely fits the scene IMO confirms that Killar recorded his music without concern to fit the cut of the movie (as quoted by Shawn Murphy), not necessarly that the cut was changed latter. Then variations were recorded (such as "The Storm [extended no choir]") and the music editor took the bits and pieces recorded and looped sections to extend it, used sections from other tracks, etc. to fit the cut of the film.
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“I think ‘original version’ means it was the original track as composed and recorded by Killar (to diferentiate it from the edited album track with the same name).
The fact that it does not precisely fits the scene IMO confirms that Killar recorded his music without concern to fit the cut of the movie (as quoted by Shawn Murphy), not necessarly that the cut was changed latter. Then variations were recorded (such as ‘The Storm [extended no choir]’) and the music editor took the bits and pieces recorded and looped sections to extend it, used sections from other tracks, etc. to fit the cut of the film.”
You mean that “The Storm (Original Version)” and “The Storm (Extended No Choir)” were not composed to be used unedited in the film, but that Kilar knew it would be edited and it was composed for that editing as well?
That would make sense! The only thing I find odd then is the statement that you hear the music on this album as the composer “intended it to be heard” (with the word “intended” emphasized by italics), because that suggests that the composer actually wanted this music to be exactly as you hear it here. Or at least that the music fits exactly to the scene in the film.
I also find the track “The Brides (Original Version)” strange, because here I hear a completely different version than the one you hear in the movie (and in the official soundtrack). The interpretation is different, and also the tempo seems faster to me. Wouldn’t the addition “Alternate Version’ be more appropriate here?
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“The LLL CDs presents his ‘original’ recordings, without the edits made to fit the film. Therefore is the music ‘as he intended’ meaning the full tracks as he ‘composed’ for the movie.”
Well, but the booklet says “intended it to be heard” - to me that sounds like Kilar wanted you to hear the music unedited and as you find it on this CD.
I don’t want to say that you are wrong, I just find this wording in the booklet strange.
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“Holy shit, we're a pedantic lot.”
I don’t find it pedantic at all to point out possibly misleading information in a booklet and ask what the “original version” was for. No one is forcing you to read these posts. 
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