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Repeating this from the thread about the podcast:
The reaction to this release is really wondrous. I'm so glad that it can finally be shared with everyone. That remains what this is all about.
I have reflected on the experience of putting it together and would like to share a thought about it:
Eleven months ago Neil Bulk and I first saw the tape which we suspected might contain the alternate "Fortress of Solitude" cue. It was not unfamiliar music to me, having read the score and heard a MIDI version. Even so, the moment we had it on the machine at Warner Sound Transfer and first heard it is beyond description. Imagine... a 4 minute piece of John Williams music recorded with the London Symphony that we didn't think existed and that no one had heard in 40 years! It was very much like the moment when Nick Redman and I first heard the early "Binary Sunset" cue from Star Wars in 1996. It is difficult to articulate the experience; initially it really feels like you must be dreaming it. The first impulse is to roll the tape back and play it again to make sure it's real and actually there.
This weekend, a portion of the alternate "Fortress" cue will appear on the 2nd part of Maurizio Caschetto's podcast as well as in a Classic FM promo. These are opportunities to discuss the track and promote the release. HOWEVER, I'd like to suggest that listeners ordering the new release consider waiting until after they have it in hand to hear this amazing track. When it arrives, silence your devices, take out disc 2, go to track 15, close your eyes, and allow yourselves to have the same experience that Neil and I had, in all of its full quality glory. You can always hear the podcast and promo later!
This is just a recommendation, respectfully submitted for your contemplation.
Thank you all for your boundless passion.
Mike
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Posted: |
Feb 21, 2019 - 6:31 AM
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By: |
Hedji
(Member)
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Mike is absolutely right.
His podcast interviews are so special, I download them and add them to my playlists at the end. Sort of like a bonus feature on a DVD. I love when Mike does an interview, and tells us how of all the discoveries and history behind the recordings. I like to think these interviews are important testimonials in the history of the preservation of these scores. So, Mike, thank you, and please continue to do them!
Having said that, I will listen to next week's show, but fast forward or mute when the "new" Fortress cue is played. That is something that deserves to be listened to in its entirety, in proper context, and on good equipment. I plan to savor that music only when I have the disc physically in my hands. First listen should be special!
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Posted: |
Feb 21, 2019 - 8:08 AM
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By: |
SpaceMind
(Member)
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This weekend, a portion of the alternate "Fortress" cue will appear on the 2nd part of Maurizio Caschetto's podcast as well as in a Classic FM promo. These are opportunities to discuss the track and promote the release. HOWEVER, I'd like to suggest that listeners ordering the new release consider waiting until after they have it in hand to hear this amazing track. When it arrives, silence your devices, take out disc 2, go to track 15, close your eyes, and allow yourselves to have the same experience that Neil and I had, in all of its full quality glory. You can always hear the podcast and promo later!
This is just a recommendation, respectfully submitted for your contemplation.
Thank you all for your boundless passion.
Mike
I will do just that! Thank you for the advise, Mike!
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This is just a recommendation, respectfully submitted for your contemplation.
Ah. Impulse control. I've heard of it.
(Actually, I'm doing a good job of NOT listening to Superman this week, saving up for The New Stuff.)
Mike, there's an initial reaction when something like this happens that we're being "had". (I don't think anyone was holding out back in 2008. That would be playing the crazy long game.) But more of a "come on, how much better can this be that I am buying this score for the SIXTH time?!?"
I appreciate the effort that you've made to communicate "No really, you want to get this one too."
Obviously I'm looking forward to it. And I'll take your advice.
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Posted: |
Feb 21, 2019 - 9:18 AM
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CCW1970
(Member)
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...but honestly there is nowhere to go from here for the 50th or at any later time other than a high resolution release...Mike M.
I wonder if you're familiar with the arguments about the merit of high resolution digital releases, at least with respect to whether any older recording can ever truly be "hi-res" given the source recording format.
I'm just now getting into the weeds on this, being an amateur audiophile (and one whose tastes exceed his finances!). Someone on another post linked to this engineer's site, which has quite a lot of information on the subject: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6405
Anyway, I just ordered the La La Land release of Superman. Like some others, I this is my 6th purchase of this score (7th if you include the Varese re-recording).
I have the FSM blue box, and hadn't considered double dipping on the sequels. But, hearing about your detailed work on those, and the source music cues, has be reconsidering. The samples sound fantastic.
FWIW, I think your work on all these archival releases is phenomenal, and keeps getting better. A buddy of mine works at Harman International in Northridge, and I was able to hear the main title of Rosewood from your La La Land release on their incredible demo stage through some huge JBL speakers. That was an impressive recording to begin with, and your work made it even better. It gave me chills!
Can't wait to hear the new Superman release through my trusty old Genesis Model 33 speakers!
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Does anyone know when these start shipping? I placed my order as soon as I saw the announcement and the suspense is killing me! :-)
(Although I'm in the UK so fear that I'll have to wait a tad longer than our US brethren to receive my copy.)
As stated this Friday. We will start shipping on that date. Thus far we have about 1500 orders on the website alone (a new record for a recent title in less than 1 week). We will process and ship them out as quickly as we can. We will be working this weekend to make sure orders get out in a timely manner. We appreciate your patience.
Thanks
MV
Got it! But when do they start shipping?
For you, Roger -- you must kneel before Zod for your copy.
MV
Not following...who is Zod?
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Sigh... well I guess Mike's post is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. I was on the fence about getting this new release or not as I already own the Blue Box and am satisfied with it. I did not see the point of upgrading (and spend money again) but the promise of a better sound quality plus an amazing unreleased track for such a milestone JW soundtrack, that sums it up for me. I will definitely get this new release! Technical question though: how come the track listing does not mention "previously unreleased" for that "The Fortress of Solitude (Alternate Segment)" track? (I did not see if that was previously answered before)
Applying the asterisks happens on a case-by-case basis. On the Potter set there would have been so many asterisks it would have looked ridiculous. We decided to not do it on An American Tail either.
This is technically the first fully Williams approved expansion of Superman, so it's almost like this is being done for the first time... here is the full score, here are the alternates, here is the original album, all from the original recording masters. So what has and hasn't been released before is not really relevant. Internally the licensing entities have all the information about who owns what.
I also understand expressions of hesitance about getting it. Part of that, I think, is because we don't really "wear out" our CDs, or even the cases they come in. The older releases look, feel, sound and work the same as when we first got them. That's not true with cars, phones, carpeting and furniture, for example, so we think about replacing them when the time comes and then enjoy the feeling of having something more "up to date."
I went through three copies of Superman on LP in ten years before it became available on CD and then bought US and Japanese editions of that, and didn't think anything about doing so... and that was for all the same master. But now we have three things... 1) economic practicality, 2) a music business that we know no longer requires physical product, 3) a title for which twice now people were told the best material was used... all coming together to tell us that our passions are reckless. It's a challenging problem and in the end up to each individual. And as I said before, there's no shame either way. If I were on the other side of this dilemma, I would just skip a meal out (or two if I was overseas) and get it.
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Posted: |
Feb 21, 2019 - 10:34 AM
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By: |
CCW1970
(Member)
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Repeating this from the thread about the podcast:
The reaction to this release is really wondrous. I'm so glad that it can finally be shared with everyone. That remains what this is all about.
I have reflected on the experience of putting it together and would like to share a thought about it:
Eleven months ago Neil Bulk and I first saw the tape which we suspected might contain the alternate "Fortress of Solitude" cue. It was not unfamiliar music to me, having read the score and heard a MIDI version. Even so, the moment we had it on the machine at Warner Sound Transfer and first heard it is beyond description. Imagine... a 4 minute piece of John Williams music recorded with the London Symphony that we didn't think existed and that no one had heard in 40 years! It was very much like the moment when Nick Redman and I first heard the early "Binary Sunset" cue from Star Wars in 1996. It is difficult to articulate the experience; initially it really feels like you must be dreaming it. The first impulse is to roll the tape back and play it again to make sure it's real and actually there.
This weekend, a portion of the alternate "Fortress" cue will appear on the 2nd part of Maurizio Caschetto's podcast as well as in a Classic FM promo. These are opportunities to discuss the track and promote the release. HOWEVER, I'd like to suggest that listeners ordering the new release consider waiting until after they have it in hand to hear this amazing track. When it arrives, silence your devices, take out disc 2, go to track 15, close your eyes, and allow yourselves to have the same experience that Neil and I had, in all of its full quality glory. You can always hear the podcast and promo later!
This is just a recommendation, respectfully submitted for your contemplation.
Thank you all for your boundless passion.
Mike
Wow. I can only imagine what that must've been like. I'm glad I checked this thread again. I'll be sure to take your advice and listen to Track 15 on Disc 2 first.
Thanks for sharing all these cool details!
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Posted: |
Feb 21, 2019 - 1:11 PM
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By: |
erepel
(Member)
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Sigh... well I guess Mike's post is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. I was on the fence about getting this new release or not as I already own the Blue Box and am satisfied with it. I did not see the point of upgrading (and spend money again) but the promise of a better sound quality plus an amazing unreleased track for such a milestone JW soundtrack, that sums it up for me. I will definitely get this new release! Technical question though: how come the track listing does not mention "previously unreleased" for that "The Fortress of Solitude (Alternate Segment)" track? (I did not see if that was previously answered before)
Applying the asterisks happens on a case-by-case basis. On the Potter set there would have been so many asterisks it would have looked ridiculous. We decided to not do it on An American Tail either.
This is technically the first fully Williams approved expansion of Superman, so it's almost like this is being done for the first time... here is the full score, here are the alternates, here is the original album, all from the original recording masters. So what has and hasn't been released before is not really relevant. Internally the licensing entities have all the information about who owns what.
I also understand expressions of hesitance about getting it. Part of that, I think, is because we don't really "wear out" our CDs, or even the cases they come in. The older releases look, feel, sound and work the same as when we first got them. That's not true with cars, phones, carpeting and furniture, for example, so we think about replacing them when the time comes and then enjoy the feeling of having something more "up to date."
I went through three copies of Superman on LP in ten years before it became available on CD and then bought US and Japanese editions of that, and didn't think anything about doing so... and that was for all the same master. But now we have three things... 1) economic practicality, 2) a music business that we know no longer requires physical product, 3) a title for which twice now people were told the best material was used... all coming together to tell us that our passions are reckless. It's a challenging problem and in the end up to each individual. And as I said before, there's no shame either way. If I were on the other side of this dilemma, I would just skip a meal out (or two if I was overseas) and get it.
Well said. Been there, done that, with all of the "Superman" music since the LP purchase in 1978. For anyone questioning whether to triple/quadruple/whatever-ple dip, listen to the podcast (noise-cancelling earphones or earbuds recommended). I got over my initial hesitation after reading "First Generation Recording Masters", and the podcast reinforced my purchase decision. I am ready to experience my favorite score anew and "sit" as close to the score stage as never before!
I am curious, Mr. Matessino: what's the story of who you first told about your discovery of the proverbial holy grail of "Superman" music? (Or is that covered in part 2 of the podcast?)
I should clarify: the podcast I am referencing is at The Legacy of John Williams web site. I have not yet listened to the Caped Wonder podcast on the new release.
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...but honestly there is nowhere to go from here for the 50th or at any later time other than a high resolution release...Mike M.
FWIW, I think your work on all these archival releases is phenomenal, and keeps getting better. A buddy of mine works at Harman International in Northridge, and I was able to hear the main title of Rosewood from your La La Land release on their incredible demo stage through some huge JBL speakers. That was an impressive recording to begin with, and your work made it even better. It gave me chills!
Can't wait to hear the new Superman release through my trusty old Genesis Model 33 speakers!
LOL! Who is your friend at Northridge? I was there for the last two days getting immersed in Harman Luxury Audio's Home Theater Academy. It was ME that shared the Rosewood track with the Harman staff about a year and a half ago - my home theater company used that track (along with many others) when we did our double blind speaker shootout between the JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor and the Revel Salon2. The Rosewood main title is an excellent recording, and really gave the speakers a workout. It also is extremely varied in instrumentation - guitar, bass, strings, horns - which made it ideal for evaluating the differences between the two speakers.
FWIW, the Revel Salon2 won the listening test by a (slight) hair. One of the things that most impresses me about Harman is that they validate all their speaker designs using double blind, scientifically controlled listening tests. It's fascinating. Did your friend show you the MLL, where they do all the comparative speaker tests? No speaker has yet to beat the Revel Salon2 in any of the listening tests - it's an amazing speaker. They recently brought in a crazy expensive pair of Wilson Audio speakers at 5X the price of the Salon2s and it was no contest - the cheaper speaker won.  That's what happens when you design a speaker around scientifically valid principles vs. just trying to max out a price point (interestingly, some of the speakers that have done the worst in the double blind listening tests have been the most expensive).
FYI, if you talk to the pure science researchers at Harman they will tell you the benefit of high rez is in the remastering of the recordings for the format, not the high resolution in and of itself. When they've done the same kind of double blind listening tests, the CD quality version sounds pretty much identical to the high rez master, as of course it also retains the substantially audible benefits of the remastering.
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I am curious, Mr. Matessino: what's the story of who you first told about your discovery of the proverbial holy grail of "Superman" music? (Or is that covered in part 2 of the podcast?)
I should clarify: the podcast I am referencing is at The Legacy of John Williams web site. I have not yet listened to the Caped Wonder podcast on the new release.
I don't think the podcast goes into all of the details and I assume you mean this "Fortress" track. Neil and I reviewed the photos of the boxes sent to us from UVS in Kansas and spotted what we believed to be the cue. We called in that tape, had it put up, and then stood there listening in a surreal indescribable fugue state. That roll was quickly transferred that night but later it was redone along with the next one in the series, which actually had the best take on it. But from the initial run made that first night I was able to make a quick and dirty mix and edit of the cue that we kept to ourselves. I played it for Jamie Richardson and the guys at La-La Land and then subsequently for Jim Bowers and Jay Towers in my car when they came in to town for a visit. Much later in the year I finalized the track (I played it for Tim Burden in London in October), but apart from the refs made for John Williams, which he listened to during his convalescence, it was kept to Neil and myself, and anyone who knew about kept quiet.
Mike
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is this available in retail stores like Amoeaba?
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Posted: |
Feb 21, 2019 - 1:57 PM
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By: |
erepel
(Member)
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I am curious, Mr. Matessino: what's the story of who you first told about your discovery of the proverbial holy grail of "Superman" music? (Or is that covered in part 2 of the podcast?)
I should clarify: the podcast I am referencing is at The Legacy of John Williams web site. I have not yet listened to the Caped Wonder podcast on the new release.
I don't think the podcast goes into all of the details and I assume you mean this "Fortress" track. Neil and I reviewed the photos of the boxes sent to us from UVS in Kansas and spotted what we believed to be the cue. We called in that tape, had it put up, and then stood there listening in a surreal indescribable fugue state. That roll was quickly transferred that night but later it was redone along with the next one in the series, which actually had the best take on it. But from the initial run made that first night I was able to make a quick and dirty mix and edit of the cue that we kept to ourselves. I played it for Jamie Richardson and the guys at La-La Land and then subsequently for Jim Bowers and Jay Towers in my car when they came in to town for a visit. Much later in the year I finalized the track (I played it for Tim Burden in London in October), but apart from the refs made for John Williams, which he listened to during his convalescence, it was kept to Neil and myself, and anyone who knew about kept quiet.
Mike
Apologies; I was unintentionally vague. I was referring to the First Gen tapes, actually. Thanks for the insight on the "Fortress" track.
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