Hey, I'm just going for the most well known example(s) to prove my point.
Love Schnittke, whether he's writing ballet music, film music, or "absolute music". He's always interesting and his pieces (no matter how schizophrenic they might be) always engage me even when taken out of their original context... no need for ever trimming his stuff down as far as I'm concerned!
Yavar
P.S. Spinmeister, did you notice Joe Sikoryak is trying to get in touch with you, over in the current custom cover art thread?
Hmmm... sounds rather like what used to be common practice for film in some European countries, no? Writing music based on a script, rather than tailoring it specifically to picture timings? So is most Morricone "absolute music" (and deserving of a complete release) because it wasn't composed directly to picture, while most Goldsmith is not? (Is the finale of E.T. "absolute music" because Spielberg edited the film to the Williams piece, rather than have Williams slavishly match to already edited screen action?)
When a modern concert composer today like Mica Levi or Hildur Gudnadottir or Jonny Greenwood writes music for a Hollywood film, but not to picture... is that now "absolute music" to you and deserving of a complete release on album, somehow?
It should be noted that the distinction between "absolute" and non-absolute music is not an actual musical distinction. In fact, the phrase ""absolute music" was originated by Richard Wagner, who incidentally only used the term to reject the idea of such music. In any case, it is not a musical distinction, because one cannot differentiate between "absolute" and "non absolute" music just by listening to it. The difference is mainly if the composer attached extra-musical ideas, concepts, narratives etc. to the music (and communicated them), or if the composer did no such thing. That's basically it. Interestingly, the only way to determine if a piece of music is "absolute" music is by consulting extra-musical sources, such as notes the composer made. "Absolute" and "non absolute" (or "programmatic") music are not actually different types of music, but rather terms used in discussions pertaining to the (perceived or not perceived) meaning of or in music. There is no way to distinguish "absolute" from "non absolute" music just by listening to the music alone.
One of the very few contemporary rock/pop hit songs that does not actually have a song form, but is, as the title suggests, rhapsodic. Well done, Queen!
Seems like the discussion here is not really about this new release anymore, so I'm gonna try steer it back on topic, with some, maybe both interesting and possibly annoying info:
Here's what's new, and what contains new material vs. the OST:
CD 1 THE SCORE 01. Opening–Naval Weapons Depot (8:07) ** 02. Baby Gas (2:28) * 03. Romance I–Tour’s Over Bob (3:46) */** 04. Hummel Speech/Alcatraz Reopened (2:25) ** 05. Hummel’s Demands To Pentagon (1:21) * 06. Possible Romantic Cue (0:46) * 07. Mason Montage (1:26) * 08. San Francisco Montage (1:17) * 09. Interrogation–Quarter (1:28) * 10. Window Crash/Fairmont (2:07) * 11. Haircut/Escape: The Chase!! (8:21) ** 12. Goodspeed Tracks Jade (0:50) * 13. Jade (1:58) 14. Blueprints (1:05) * 15. Hummel/SEALs (7:14) ** 16. Mason Into Furnace/SEALs Tunnel–SEAL Attack (9:24) ** 17. Aftermath (0:51) * 18. Bombs (3:43) * 19. The Morgue (1:45) * 20. Indiana Jones/Fight With Marines (6:17) **
CD 2 THE SCORE (continued) 01. Hostage/Goodspeed Captured (5:35) ** 02. Plasma Bomb Is Ready (0:52) * 03. Hammer Head (6:02) ** 04. President’s Lament (1:59) * 05. Mission’s Over/Final Attack/Finale (16:19) ** 06. Fort Walton, Kansas (1:39) 07. End Titles (Hummel / SEALs) (2:14) **
THE EXTRAS
08. SEAL Attack (Alternate Segment) (1:34) 09. Fort Walton, Kansas (Alternate) (1:37) 10. Main Theme Idea (Nick’s Demo Sketch) (2:36) 11. Hummel Speech–Alcatraz Reopened (Demo Version) (2:24) 12. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 1) (3:37) 13. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 2) (8:04) 14. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 3) (8:16) 15. Naval Weapons Depot (Rock Mix) (4:17)
* previously unreleased ** contains previously unreleased material
Comments:
Most of the cues on the OST have new material on the Intrada, except just a couple of them; CD1 track 13 - Jade, CD2 track 05, part 2 (on OST it's track 06, from 4:37-7:40), and CD2 track 06 - Fort Walton, Kansas.
CD2 track 05 (part 5/last part) didn't really have much left out on the OST, but the first 5 seconds where not included in the way it was combined on the OST. I don't know how it's been edited into the previous cue on this new release, but I feel, anyway, that those 5 seconds is worth having. Even if it's also cut from the film...
Also, most of the cutted material on the OST are from bits and pieces here and there, the only major thing that was removed more or less completely, where 4 minutes from SEAL Attack (last part of CD1 track 16) (The Shower Room shootout scene), which is more or less a variation of the Opening music... I can't remember exactly how much of it, but this was also used at the end (?) of the end credits in the film...
CD1 track 07 - End Titles, if it's the album version of CD1 track 15 - Hummel/SEALs (last part of OST track 2), it might have (this is just an assumption on my part, I don't really know) a clean start/drum-build-up. And some of it were unused.
I will get this new album since I don't have it at all. Can you program the OST album from the Intrada tracks? I could listen to both with an open mind.
Here's the tracks on the Intrada in the order they are on the OST. As mentioned in my post above, most of them do have new material...
CD1 01. Opening–Naval Weapons Depot (8:07)
CD1 03. Romance I–Tour’s Over Bob (3:46) * CD1 04. Hummel Speech/Alcatraz Reopened (2:25) CD1 15. Hummel/SEALs (7:14) **
CD1 13. Jade (1:58)
CD1 16. Mason Into Furnace/SEALs Tunnel–SEAL Attack (9:24) CD1 20. Indiana Jones/Fight With Marines (6:17)
CD2 01. Hostage/Goodspeed Captured (5:35) CD2 03. Hammer Head (6:02)
Most were actually in film/chronological order, except Hummel/SEALs were placed at the end of track 02, before track 03 - Jade. And of course The Chase, obviously, was placed as the last track
* First part of CD1 track 03 was not on the OST ** On CD1 track 15, the OST contained a different version (heard on the OST in track 2 from approx. 4:20-5:37), which is possibly in CD2 track 07 - End Credits on the Intrada
I will get this new album since I don't have it at all. Can you program the OST album from the Intrada tracks? I could listen to both with an open mind.
Here's the tracks on the Intrada in the order they are on the OST. As mentioned in my post above, most of them do have new material...
CD1 01. Opening–Naval Weapons Depot (8:07)
CD1 03. Romance I–Tour’s Over Bob (3:46) * CD1 04. Hummel Speech/Alcatraz Reopened (2:25) CD1 15. Hummel/SEALs (7:14) **
CD1 13. Jade (1:58)
CD1 16. Mason Into Furnace/SEALs Tunnel–SEAL Attack (9:24) CD1 20. Indiana Jones/Fight With Marines (6:17)
CD2 01. Hostage/Goodspeed Captured (5:35) CD2 03. Hammer Head (6:02)
Most were actually in film/chronological order, except Hummel/SEALs were placed at the end of track 02, before track 03 - Jade. And of course The Chase, obviously, was placed as the last track
* First part of CD1 track 03 was not on the OST ** On CD1 track 15, the OST contained a different version (heard on the OST in track 2 from approx. 4:20-5:37), which is possibly in CD2 track 07 - End Credits on the Intrada
Thank you for this Per. Good show getting this thread back on topic and your details are appreciated.
I had to revise my info above regarding which cues had previously unreleased or not, I wrote CD1 track 16 (first part) - Mason Into Furnace didn't really have anything cutted on the OST, but it actaully does have around 15 seconds cutted after all...
Also, CD2 track 05 (part 5/last part) didn't really have much cut out off the OST, only the very first 5 seconds, but it's not just a fade-in that's cut, but a cool opening piece (a drum hit with choir), so that's why I have it as having previously unreleased material. However, since i don't know how the cues have been edited together on the Intrada yet, I don't really know if that opening piece is included or not...
I wonder if there will be any info in the booklet (or digital CD rip in iTunes) on who wrote what? Or will all the tracks be labelled with all 3 composers? I know there's info on hz.com but would be cool to have it "on paper".