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 Posted:   Apr 26, 2016 - 10:06 PM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)


Wow, I love this discussion and appreciate all of the suggestions. The 3 disc Capitol set does indeed have the purple book. The disc set has a booklet with a picture of Mr. Sinatra on it if I am not mistaken. My 4 disc set is on loan to someone right now so I can't recall exactly.

I can attest to the difference in the sound quality of the 2 sets, with the 3 disc set sounding richer and clearer. However, I am not against a muddier sound when it comes to the older selections. I am just thrilled to have access to it.

I wish I could afford the huge sets out there. I see Reprise, Capitol and even Columbia. I can't justify the large sum being asked. However, with the advice I am getting here, I can piece together a pretty continuous collection.

By the way, I am a huge fan of the Harry James, Jimmy Dorsey era. I have several Glenn Miller recordings as well.

 
 Posted:   Apr 26, 2016 - 10:06 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Octoberman, there is no indication who did the mastering in the Capitol Records Concepts Albums box, but if I were to take an educated guess, I'd say Walsh with noise reduction inexplicably added. An irrelevant point and of no concern to the OP.


Just curious. I thought someone here would know.
(And I'd counter that sound quality is of at least some relevance to Eee-Dee, unless you know otherwise.)

 
 Posted:   Apr 26, 2016 - 10:11 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

By the way, I am a huge fan of the Harry James, Jimmy Dorsey era. I have several Glenn Miller recordings as well.


The reason I mentioned the James era is because (and you are probably aware that) all the recordings under James are collected on one disc. I think most folks rate those recordings as far less important than what was to come, but I find they are certainly not without their charm and there is a certain undefinable--and very enjoyable--quality to hearing FS starting his journey to find his voice.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 1:03 AM   
 By:   BillCarson   (Member)

Hey zoomom - you aint getting that box set back - i like it too much! Ha ha.

Some real experts on here - thanks octoberman and onya and edw, thats really helpful.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 1:11 AM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)

Octoberman:
(And I'd counter that sound quality is of at least some relevance to Eee-Dee, unless you know otherwise.)


What are you trying to do, spoiling someone's enjoyment of the music? Stop it. Get off the sound quality thing. I don't refer people to bad quality recordings. I don't even mention bad quality recordings. Assume that I know better and move on.

All official Sinatra releases are in professional sound quality. No exceptions.

Since the OP has already stated she won't be buying the high-priced box-sets with the audiophile quality -- like The Capitol Years box released by EMI in the U.K. -- there's no point in going there. Besides, the Capitol Records Concept Albums provide exactly the same thing with The Complete Capitol Singles Collection filling in the missing tracks which the U.K. box has on the "This Is Sinatra" discs.

Since the OP has already expressed satisfaction with the Norberg-mastered The Complete Capitol Singles Collection it would be more productive to talk about the contents of the discs than nitpicking over which has higher highs and lower lows.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 2:10 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

What are you trying to do, spoiling someone's enjoyment of the music? Stop it. Get off the sound quality thing. I don't refer people to bad quality recordings. I don't even mention bad quality recordings. Assume that I know better and move on.
All official Sinatra releases are in professional sound quality. No exceptions.
Since the OP has already stated she won't be buying the high-priced box-sets with the audiophile quality -- like The Capitol Years box released by EMI in the U.K. -- there's no point in going there. Besides, the Capitol Records Concept Albums provide exactly the same thing with The Complete Capitol Singles Collection filling in the missing tracks which the U.K. box has on the "This Is Sinatra" discs.
Since the OP has already expressed satisfaction with the Norberg-mastered The Complete Capitol Singles Collection it would be more productive to talk about the contents of the discs than nitpicking over which has higher highs and lower lows.



You seem confused with who said what. I am not on any "sound quality thing". Nor did I say anything that could be even remotely construed as spoiling her enjoyment of the music. That's your own projection, I think.
I merely asked, in passing, if the Concepts set had a mastering credit for my own curiosity.
And if you check again, you'll see that I was not aiming her towards any of the large, deluxe sets.

I do not assume anything else on Eee-Dee's part, apart from what she has already stated, and I certainly do not assume that you know better.
However, I respect that you have, as we all do, an opinion. A well-informed one, even.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 3:01 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

By the way, I am a huge fan of the Harry James, Jimmy Dorsey era. I have several Glenn Miller recordings as well.


Eee-Dee, this is the one I was referring to earlier:

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 5:58 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)


Since the OP has already expressed satisfaction with the Norberg-mastered The Complete Capitol Singles Collection it would be more productive to talk about the contents of the discs than nitpicking over which has higher highs and lower lows.


If the OP is thinking about dropping money on one of the Capitol complete albums boxes, I thought it was very relevant to mention that the Larry Walsh masterings are generally preferred over the Bob Norberg masterings.

If sound quality does not matter to you, that is fine. It matters to some of us, and it might matter to the OP.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 9:14 AM   
 By:   Ray Faiola   (Member)

One of these has the acetates from MEET DANNY WILSON, correct? Nice little musical noir and a dress rehearsal for Frank's THE JOKER IS WILD.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 11:51 AM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)

Again, I reiterate, the Capitol Records Concept Albums box-set will meet the OP's needs just fine and compliment the Complete Capitol Records Singles Collection which she already has. Sound quality is professional and highly enjoyable in both sets.

It is true that the Larry Walsh masterings are preferred over the Norberg, but it's also true that many critics overstate the criticism, and that Norberg's masterings not only dominate the market but are generally accepted by consumers without complaint. And there is the additional fact that Walsh masterings have been out-of-print for fifteen years, are sold out and very expensive when found:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Capitol-Years-21-CD-by-Frank-Sinatra-CD-Oct-1998-21-Discs-Emi-NEW-/181866696486?hash=item2a58198f26:m:mEtiUNbcrLretmdorAXbsuQ

it's best to go ahead with the Capitol Records Concept Albums box-set that I linked above. When combined with The Complete Capitol Records Singles Collection it will add up to everything contained in the Larry Walsh-mastered The Capitol Years 21-CD box. It can be had for $50 or less, which is still a bargain when you consider that it includes 14 CD's in facsimiles of the original cover art and tracklistings. However, Walsh masterings still appear on individual album CD releases here and there which I will collate and post in due course in case the OP wants to hunt them all down.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 2:33 PM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)

edwzoomom,

Since you liked A VOICE ON AIR you may want to get LOST AND FOUND: THE RADIO YEARS a follow-up disc mastered by the same team and published by the Smithsonian last Christmas:

https://subscribe.smithsonianmag.com/sinatracd

Awesome performances in the same stunning quality. Not as well-known as A VOICE ON AIR but it should have been the 5th disc in the box. I guarantee you'll love it.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 2:33 PM   
 By:   Richard-W   (Member)

duplicate post

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 5:24 PM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

Hey zoomom - you aint getting that box set back - i like it too much! Ha ha.

Some real experts on here - thanks octoberman and onya and edw, thats really helpful.


Okay Bill, guess I am going to have to send Deputy Firecracker after you! Actually, she would probably be very happy if it stayed where it is right now. I have no clue why she doesn't like it!

I am no expert, trust me. I just like Frank.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 5:42 PM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

What are you trying to do, spoiling someone's enjoyment of the music? Stop it. Get off the sound quality thing. I don't refer people to bad quality recordings. I don't even mention bad quality recordings. Assume that I know better and move on.
All official Sinatra releases are in professional sound quality. No exceptions.
Since the OP has already stated she won't be buying the high-priced box-sets with the audiophile quality -- like The Capitol Years box released by EMI in the U.K. -- there's no point in going there. Besides, the Capitol Records Concept Albums provide exactly the same thing with The Complete Capitol Singles Collection filling in the missing tracks which the U.K. box has on the "This Is Sinatra" discs.
Since the OP has already expressed satisfaction with the Norberg-mastered The Complete Capitol Singles Collection it would be more productive to talk about the contents of the discs than nitpicking over which has higher highs and lower lows.



You seem confused with who said what. I am not on any "sound quality thing". Nor did I say anything that could be even remotely construed as spoiling her enjoyment of the music. That's your own projection, I think.
I merely asked, in passing, if the Concepts set had a mastering credit for my own curiosity.
And if you check again, you'll see that I was not aiming her towards any of the large, deluxe sets.

I do not assume anything else on Eee-Dee's part, apart from what she has already stated, and I certainly do not assume that you know better.
However, I respect that you have, as we all do, an opinion. A well-informed one, even.


I did not take Octoberman's comments as pushing only recordings with quality sound only. In all honesty, I have recordings by Sinatra and Nat King Cole that are mono and a bit muddy but I still listen to them without any complaints. It is the content I look for. I have no concept of the use of "noise reduction" or "added reverb". I leave these terms to the rest of you. I am there for the content. If the quality is enhanced, of course I notice. However, how the recording got that way is not my expertise.

I am grateful for all of the information provided here and look forward to hearing more.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2016 - 6:38 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

It's worth noting that Capitol Records in the 1950s had about the best high fidelity capabilities of that era and, arguably, any era since. There is no need for remastering engineers to tinker with those recordings.

My last word on the topic.

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2016 - 4:20 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

We each have our favourite songs or albums ... even periods of recording, be it the Columbia, Capitol or Reprise years ... or earlier with Harry James / Tommy Dorsey, etc. And, of course, there're the distinctive sounds of the various regular arrangers: Riddle, May, Stordhal, Jenkins, Costa, Freeman, Hefti et al.

And I recognise, like many others, that Sinatra's recordings in the 1950s were exemplary (provided you like his singing!). But whereas others will plump for his recordings with Nelson Riddle or Billy May, I find I enjoy his recordings with Gordon Jenkins just that little bit more.

The trouble with box sets is that it's almost too much, too quickly and it's easy to pass over what is a phenomenal recording because there's always another album to play. I've known - and loved - most of Sinatra's recordings for the Capitol and Reprise eras, together with a large number of earlier recordings, for many years but it's amazing how good and fresh a song I haven't heard in quite some time will sound.

But one song, above all others, has been a favourite for a long time and I urge you to get hold of his 1957 album Where Are You? ... tr.8 I'm a fool to want you ... near 5 minutes of pure bliss. He had recorded the song with Axel Stordhal in 1951 (with the Ray Charles Singers) and that is fabulous ... but the later Gordon Jenkins' arrangement in what was Sinatra's first stereo album surpasses that earlier recording, creating a work of pure art. The album features a few other wonderful songs, too, including Leonard Bernstein's Lonely Town from his musical On the Town (which was left out of the film version), the perennial favourite: Autumn Leaves and the best ever reading of David Raksin's and Johnny Mercer's Laura.

An incredible album (albeit my wife dislikes the final track: Baby won't you please come home - the lyric being somewhat questionable in these enlightened days!)

Mitch

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2016 - 8:39 AM   
 By:   Stefan Huber   (Member)

Just a short reply for now: KEEP AWAY from the official Capitol albums (and that includes the 'Concepts' box set) currently available in the US. ALL of these are Norberged. And the singles box set is only the top of the iceberg of how awful they sound. The white singles set was one of Bob Norberg's better masterings - he ruined all of the Sinatra Capitol albums...

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2016 - 10:04 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Just a short reply for now: KEEP AWAY from the official Capitol albums (and that includes the 'Concepts' box set) currently available in the US. ALL of these are Norberged. And the singles box set is only the top of the iceberg of how awful they sound. The white singles set was one of Bob Norberg's better masterings - he ruined all of the Sinatra Capitol albums...


That's a valid comment, always.
But I think that Richard was recommending the most recent Capitol Concepts box (the mini-LP set) to Eee-Dee primarily on the basis that, compared to its previous configurations, the sound quality was an acceptable compromise for the price.

The 1998 EMI box would obviously be the most desirable choice here, but I gather that those sets are very expensive on the secondary markets and thus not really in the running.
Such a pity--I wouldn't mind one, myself!

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2016 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

But one song, above all others, has been a favourite for a long time and I urge you to get hold of his 1957 album Where Are You? ... tr.8 I'm a fool to want you ... near 5 minutes of pure bliss. He had recorded the song with Axel Stordhal in 1951 (with the Ray Charles Singers) and that is fabulous ... but the later Gordon Jenkins' arrangement in what was Sinatra's first stereo album surpasses that earlier recording, creating a work of pure art.


That song is devastating.
(I like the 1951 too.)

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2016 - 10:43 AM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

But one song, above all others, has been a favourite for a long time and I urge you to get hold of his 1957 album Where Are You? ... tr.8 I'm a fool to want you ... near 5 minutes of pure bliss. He had recorded the song with Axel Stordhal in 1951 (with the Ray Charles Singers) and that is fabulous ... but the later Gordon Jenkins' arrangement in what was Sinatra's first stereo album surpasses that earlier recording, creating a work of pure art.


That song is devastating.
(I like the 1951 too.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX3r-nOSnN0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOKdDwMxfOc

Yes, devastating.

 
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