 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It's a real strange thing, the western. It seems to be purely owned by America, except like so much of that wonderful country, it simply isn't. Not only was the country formed by immigrants (and yes I know much like my own if over an even longer period of time), but the western is 'owned' by everyone. I might have said this before but the simple fact is that the form elevated itself almost to something beyond just being about a period of American history.
It's a platform for many dramas. Which is a long winded of me saying that at the moment I see The Wild Bunch way down my list of to do movies. I keep meaning to get reaquainted with it. But after years of enjoying SO many westerns on British tv as a kid, including Stagecoach, The Big Country, The Magnificent Seven, The Gunfighter, High Noon, Hondo, Shane, and LOTS of John Ford classics (are there any that aren't classic?), I ended up loving the Sergio Leone films more than any.
But I MUST do The Wild Bunch. My lasting impression as a kid is it was overly violent. Ha! And I'm a spaghetti fan.. But I don't see as much blood in the spaghettis I've got (and I've got a few recently) as I remember on that viewing of The Wild Bunch...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Feb 26, 2019 - 2:06 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Richard-W
(Member)
|
It's a real strange thing, the western. It seems to be purely owned by America, except like so much of that wonderful country, it simply isn't. Not only was the country formed by immigrants (and yes I know much like my own if over an even longer period of time), but the western is 'owned' by everyone. I might have said this before but the simple fact is that the form elevated itself almost to something beyond just being about a period of American history....
Forgive me, but you are wrong. Totally, utterly and completely wrong. And confused.
Not all Americans are immigrants. Many Americans are born and raised
here and America is all they know. And knew. Westward expansion from
the eastern states to the western territories was done by people born
and raised here, in addition to European immigrants. The children of
immigrants born and raised here also settled the American west, and
American is all they knew. It follows, then, that the Western as a genre
derived out of the life Americans lived. The genre developed naturally
out of our culture and heritage in the earliest days of cinema. The genre
couldn't have started in any other country. That's not opinion, it's fact.
The American west actually happened. In real life. It's not a myth. It's
not a fantasy. The American west is a geographical place with an actual,
factual history. Even fictitious westerns depict many underlying truths of
western expansion and the pioneer experience.
To say that the western is "owned" by other countries is preposterous
and ridiculous and false on its face. It disrespects the heritage and
culture from which the western derived, first in experience, then in 1800s
newspaper reporting, in memoirs and journals, in books and magazines,
and then in the earliest films. I'm glad that other countries enjoy the
western and that it meant so much to them they started making their
own imitations. But they're just imitations.
The western started when the pioneers themselves started relating their
adventures and experiences in letters to eastern newspapers. Every paper
had a western correspondent. Then came monthly publications devoted to
correspondence from pioneers. Then there were exaggerated stories,
sometimes written by pioneers themselves but not always, which became
dime novels. Dime novels about the American west started during the Gold
Rush of 1849 and grew into a thriving industry by the 1870s to 1900. In a
a very real sense western movies are an extension of dime novels, but not
entirely. Personal experiences as well as national events -- like Custer's
Last Stand, to name one in a thousand -- also contributed to the western.
None of this happened in Europe. The Europeans didn't know anything
about it until Buffalo Bill showed it to them in his traveling Wild West Circus.
The western started on the page in 1850s America before the movies
were invented. Once the movies were invented, westerns were among
the first films made on the American continent, in some cases by the
westerners themselves.
Dime novel westerns published in 1800s America, not in Europe:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Great movie. A remake would be a crime along the lines of the remake of Psycho.
I think of this movie as a "mod Western", with its wild brutality and raw emotions.
Thinking of the current events of its time (Vietnam, the Manson murders) it fits right in with the perversity of what America was becoming.
What I really admire, though, is that the story turns on the rashness of a young man murdering a spurning lover (Angel, losing his woman to the warlord Mapache.); a romantic propulsion to a decidedly anti-romantic story.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Good luck joan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Feb 26, 2019 - 8:32 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
joan hue
(Member)
|
Hey Arthur, I am encouraging the other posters on this thread to read your list plus analysis of what you believe are the 10 best westerns. Others on this thread are probably more knowledgeable than I am about some of the movies you listed. Posters, please read Arthur's article and give us your insights.
I thought overall it was a fine list. I must admit, however, that there were 2 on your list I've not seen. One is The Tall T. The other is Devils Doorway which you said was not really well-known.
My own list would probably have The Big Country, The Magnificent Seven, and Lonesome Dove on it and maybe a few others that are different from your list.
Your list is fine and what I really enjoyed was reading your in-depth analysis of all of these fine westerns. You have zeroed in on some of our greatest westerns that are true classics.
Here is a bit of irony on my part. I do think The Wild Bunch is probably our greatest western. However, of all of my favorite westerns, I like other western film scores better that Fielding's score. Oh, I think it is a solid score well married to the movie, but it is a bit too dissonant for my particular tastes. I don't listen to that score very often.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hey Arthur, I am encouraging the other posters on this thread to read your list plus analysis of what you believe are the 10 best westerns. Others on this thread are probably more knowledgeable than I am about some of the movies you listed. Posters, please read Arthur's article and give us your insights.
I thought overall it was a fine list. I must admit, however, that there were 2 on your list I've not seen. One is The Tall T. The other is Devils Doorway which you said was not really well-known.
My own list would probably have The Big Country, The Magnificent Seven, and Lonesome Dove on it and maybe a few others that are different from your list.
Your list is fine and what I really enjoyed was reading your in-depth analysis of all of these fine westerns. You have zeroed in on some of our greatest westerns that are true classics.
Here is a bit of irony on my part. I do think The Wild Bunch is probably our greatest western. However, of all of my favorite westerns, I like other western film scores better that Fielding's score. Oh, I think it is a solid score well married to the movie, but it is a bit too dissonant for my particular tastes. I don't listen to that score very often.
Thanks so much Joan for having a look and your positive response!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That's a good list and perceptive essay. Two by Peckinpah and
two by Mann.
Devil's Doorway deserves to be better known. It's a film noir
as well as a western and I think is Mann's best film. A great
choice. Right now it's only available on Warner Archive DVD.
I would have chosen Shane over Once Upon a Time West, easily.
I would be curious to know why Arthur Grant chose The Tall T
over Boetticher's other westerns -- 7 Men From Now, Ride
Lonesome, Comanche Station. He just kept getting better and
better, and then he stopped. Burt Kennedy had to send his
scripts to other directors.
Thanks so much for reading that and your comments Richard! I chose The Tall T because I thought the conflicts portrayed were tighter, complex and fascinatingly unique. They were also highly revealing of character in situations of extreme pressure and resourcefulness. Having said that, I think Ride Lonesome has more resonance and would be a worthy substitute.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Does Kill Bill count?
How the West was Won, Lonely are the Brave, Alamo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
