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 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 1:20 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Please don't include Mr. Herrmann with the rest of these wankers, especially Polanski, Jackson and Kinski.

The point was to name a few artists with problematic personalities and private lives, regardless of their differing nature and degree of severity, and how one is still able to enjoy their work.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 5:01 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

He also gets my vote for best ever Lex Luthor.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 6:09 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

. . .I love Michael Jackson, Roman Polanski, Bernard Herrmann, Rainer Werner Fassbinder, Klaus Kinski, Mel Gibson, Jon Voight, you name it. I separate the appreciation of their artistic work from their controversial non-artistic sides.

Please don't include Mr. Herrmann with the rest of these wankers, especially Polanski, Jackson and Kinski.


Yes, the seeming false equivalencies in that list, though doubtless unintended by Thor, could cause pain in some readers. The classic case, of course, is Richard Wagner, who was by all accounts a disagreeable human being and whose anti-Semitism looms larger than ever after the horrors of the 20th century. Still his titanic work endures.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 6:17 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

No equivalency was intended; it was a list of people with problematic personalities that runs the gamut from 'grouchy bastards' (in which Herrmann would qualify) to sex offenders ro right-wing nuts.

Tom Cruise is another one; seems completely bonkers, but I like his performances, and especially the films he stars in.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 6:17 AM   
 By:   Montana Dave   (Member)

Pretty much FOR THOR: I viewed 'The Usual Suspects' last night for the very first time. I think the reason I'd never seen the film when it came out was because after a few minutes, it seemed like some 'Police Story' type film, and they are usually not my type of film. If this film came out today, I would pass on it again 'at face value', and of course, that would be MY mistake. Somewhere near the beginning, the name of a key-character comes up, 'KEISER SOUZA'. Now, when I heard that, it took me right back 25 years ago and, I remembered that name seemed to be everywhere at the time, yet I still didn't know WHO it was. Thor, you were correct about that twist ending, when it came, it hit me like a brick to the head! I can't help but wonder if Director M.Night Shayamalen started writing his screenplays ALL with twist endings after seeing this film? Here's something else, seeing it for the first time: There was a LOT of 'Gay Talent' in the film. By this, I mean mostly the people behind, (and then closeted Spacey in front of), the cameras. Director Bryan Singer, Composer John Ottman, Editor, (again), John Ottman, the Director Paul Bartel who's scene wearing a white suite in the back-seat of a Police Car on fire was pivotal. And a 'throw-away' scene: One of the actors is seen at night standing in front of a magazine store window and is lit from behind by the light from the window. Right in the middle of the window is a copy of 'The Advocate', a gay magazine, and on the cover of the magazine is RUDY GULLIANNI, much younger and with hair. Why he's on the cover is a mystery now, but it was startling to see. Overall, KEVIN SPACEY is sensational in this film and deserved his Oscar. I can't even recall who else was nominated that year, but Spacey made himself known here!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 6:20 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

So great you got to see it. I was worried the ending had been ruined for you by Grecchus' spoiler above, but thankfully you didn't see it. It's a great film; slick, elegant, moody.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 6:40 AM   
 By:   leagolfer   (Member)

Personally, I haven't kept tabs of all accusers but I reckon those crap-cases are fakes, Spacey hiding his sexual identity wasn't cool or clean while earning millions, maybe he hid that due too public reaction leading too negativity of bosses, I believe KS not speaking out has weakened his credibility due too on-looking hoaxers.

Spacey was ex in Ordinary Decent Criminal he stupidly crosses interests by not joining IRA regimes or crimes over his/there heists, Spacey is just criminally active insane & funny in this movie giving the police joy-rides all-over the cast is great too.

The Negotiator also ex viewing there weren't a lot of Spacey scenes but he somehow got crapped on quick between police corruption & Jackson & wife's innocence, KS was a convincing Negotiator that end scene summed it up blood £ matters.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 6:46 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

If everything they are saying is true, then I have no desire to ever see him again.

Unless it is the Kenyon Hopkins biopic that was in the works. Hans Zimmer was supposed to do the musical score to that one. There's another dream that was crushed.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 6:56 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I personally hate it when I find out an actor is actually a fallible human being.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 7:01 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I personally hate it when I find out an actor is actually a fallible human being.

It's a slipperly slope. If you consume art and entertainment made only by nice people, you'll miss a lot of the good stuff. Miles Davis and James Brown, for starters.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 7:10 AM   
 By:   leagolfer   (Member)

If everything they are saying is true, then I have no desire to ever see him again.

Unless it is the Kenyon Hopkins biopic that was in the works. Hans Zimmer was supposed to do the musical score to that one. There's another dream that was crushed.


Until there's proof all this is fabricated, some have pulled out of hoaxing what does that tell you £ blaggers.

Yeah, that's right, they tried too pin Cliff Richard not long ago, UK's R&R answer too Elvis, Golden boy of pop.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 7:19 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I personally hate it when I find out an actor is actually a fallible human being.

It's a slipperly slope. If you consume art and entertainment made only by nice people, you'll miss a lot of the good stuff. Miles Davis and James Brown, for starters.


Yes indeed! My reaction though varies by actor and how I feel about them. When some act bat shit crazy it just turns me off and I lose interest in their movies but I don't necessarily "dispise" them. If they've been accused of something horrible, I generally don't pass judgment because I believe in this little thing called innocent until proven guilty. Other actors (more of the up and coming ones) have such despicable public personalities that I would never watch their stuff-You attract more flies with honey. Regarding those with radical politics from my own, damn that's a hard one. Sometimes it becomes a downer watching their stuff, my other reaction maybe hell their such great performers I block their politics from my mind and just enjoy their craft.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 7:22 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Regarding Spacey, I never really got why he was so beloved. I find his performances rather coma inducing. He just never really did anything for me. And it has nothing to do with accusations leveled against him.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 8:07 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Regarding Spacey, I never really got why he was so beloved. I find his performances rather coma inducing. He just never really did anything for me. And it has nothing to do with accusations leveled against him.

Maybe Spacey had his stint in 'theatrical London' for a reason. I mean, we have our share of drama queens, so why is it alright for some and not for others? There must be some other misdemeanor one is sent down for that only the establishment cult figures pass judgment on and in which fare paying peasants are not privvy to. There's a lot of it going about, these days - highly selective quid pro quo shenanigans - it depends how much favor is curried here and there. What else is new?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 9:15 AM   
 By:   MikeyKW   (Member)

I like many of his films, but I grew tired of the controlling, amoral characters he often played. He seemed to almost relish playing roles that were possibly pretty close to his own life.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 9:43 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

Regarding Spacey, I never really got why he was so beloved. I find his performances rather coma inducing. He just never really did anything for me. And it has nothing to do with accusations leveled against him.

The Solium Obstinancy

He's a fantastic actor. Always interesting!

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 10:28 AM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Regarding Spacey, I never really got why he was so beloved. I find his performances rather coma inducing. He just never really did anything for me. And it has nothing to do with accusations leveled against him.

Maybe Spacey had his stint in 'theatrical London' for a reason. I mean, we have our share of drama queens, so why is it alright for some and not for others? There must be some other misdemeanor one is sent down for that only the establishment cult figures pass judgment on and in which fare paying peasants are not privvy to. There's a lot of it going about, these days - highly selective quid pro quo shenanigans - it depends how much favor is curried here and there. What else is new?


?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 10:46 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

Fantastic actor is as over the top as totally not guilty in my book. I mean he's good in his roles, but I can't think of anything SO amazing...

If he is a bad person he needs to be done for it. But my feeling is that if the person or persons accusing are found out to be wrong/bad etc., then THEY should be brought to book. Not sure if we ever hear of this.

We all know this stuff is a minefield. All those of us who like the work of these people can do, is see what happens and make up our own minds.

I grew up with Jimmy Saville in the UK, who was to many a paragon of virtue for quite a few reasons. And since this guy, we have I think learned to wait and see.

We have judges and juries for a reason. It's never cut and dried. Hanging someone and finding out later actually...... is a terrible thing. I'm probably a 'liberal' for not believing in the death penalty. But at least whatever happens next.. the person at least is still here to tell the tale.

Btw. Take no notice of me. Just come back from the pub. Know what? It's amazing what a job it does in being everything from counselling to therapy. Just with conversation and yep, just a little alcohol. Not those HUGE! leaps in Thor's beers content I might add.





 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 11:24 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

A & C. Maybe you have to be a Brit to get some idea of what I'm implying. Spacey is gay, bi or whatever. The British dramatic establishment is rife with that type of persona and Spacey might have come to the UK to thrive in it. That makes sense to me. What has happened in recent years is that some people who were a part of that deep and closeted establishment and who experienced years and years, if not decade after decade under the norm of complete and total protection from exposure under an umbrella of respectability, had the rug pulled out from under them in a flash. People like Rolf Harris were darlings of this way of life. Indeed they could do no wrong. Their long and continued public impression of whiter than whiteliness was one of the factors that maintained the outward impression of continued stability and family balance etc, etc, etc. That is how things used to be. Then, very suddenly and almost without warning, that tradition of constancy changed overnight. It seems to have everything to do with instanstaneous communication that modern media feasts on for that feverish buzz of controversial gratification that calls for sacrificial victims to be strung out on the altar of sacrifice, thick and fast. In fact, it's so chaotic that no one actually knows whose turn it is to get passed around next. I did actually think the gist of what I was saying was clear in my previous post. Obviously not.

With Spacey, what seems to have happened is that he gained a learned response where being notoriously indiscrete, when there were pre-existing 'closet' norms, had no comeback. All that has changed with the new pardigm of accepted 'normality,' where it's okay to be 'bad' just so long as the hypocritical finger of 'justice' does not catch up with you.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2019 - 8:09 PM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

For me personally. I don't really miss him. He's a great actor for playing an asshole.

His SWIMMING WITH SHARKS role I believe is the epitome of him playing that role which he does extremely well. I've never seen him play a sympathetic character that I actually liked or felt something for. Maybe the closest he came was in PAY IT FORWARD where even though he tried, I didn't buy it.

But if he never made another movie again, I would be just fine.

He's a pretty good impressionist. He can nail Johnny Carson, Jack Lemmon and Al Pacino pretty nicely.

 
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