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 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 11:02 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

This is very sad and horrific for everyone involved. I can't imagine the shock and horror everyone must be feeling. I do question why in this day and age they are using prop guns that fire ANYTHING at all. Just CGI the flash and smoke. They CGI blood nowadays, may times CGI blades of swords and of course fictional science fiction weapons are basically static props and they animated the laser fire in post.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 11:14 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

I would feel a lot better about this thread if the world "Accidentally" could be inserted between Baldwin _ Kills in the subject line
I feel quite terrible for the woman killed of course, but Alec must be going through a real personal hell over this.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 12:16 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

I would feel a lot better about this thread if the world "Accidentally" could be inserted between Baldwin _ Kills in the subject line


The permissible length of the thread title doesn't allow for insertion of the word "accidentally," but I've revised the title to place the responsibility squarely where it belongs.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 12:17 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Now that title is even worse. The gun didn't target and fire itself. It's neither magical nor alive. This was Alec Baldwin's work, even if accidentally.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 12:21 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Now that title is even worse. The gun didn't target and fire itself. It's neither magical nor alive. This was Alec Baldwin's work, even if accidentally.

One more try.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 12:27 PM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

I would feel a lot better about this thread if the world "Accidentally" could be inserted between Baldwin _ Kills in the subject line


The permissible length of the thread title doesn't allow for insertion of the word "accidentally," but I've revised the title to place the responsibility squarely where it belongs.


Thanks Bob

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 12:28 PM   
 By:   Sehnsuchtshafen   (Member)

Now, the thread title is even worse. Better be left as originally worded:

"Alec Baldwin Kills One, Injures Another on Set"



There is no such thing as a "prop gun" that can fire a real bullet. It wouldn't be a "prop gun".

The mainstream media is now widely reporting the actor Alec Baldwin accidentally shot and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins with a “prop gun,” characterizing the shooting as a “mishap” that also involved the wounding of film director Joel Souza who, “is expected to survive,” according to media reports.

According to the UK Daily Mail, when Baldwin pulled the trigger of the so-called “prop gun,” it “somehow unintentionally launched a projectile or projectiles at the crew members.”

There are news for you. That’s a real gun, not a prop gun. Any gun that, when the trigger is pulled, accelerates a projectile down a barrel with enough speed to strike and kill another person is, in fact, a functioning real gun. Calling it a “prop gun” is deliberately misleading, because it implies the firearm does not function. Clearly, Baldwin was firing a functioning gun.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 12:30 PM   
 By:   jackfu   (Member)

Most assuredly, I believe it was accidental.
But did he point the weapon at them? It certainly would seem so. If so, why? And then, why did he fire the weapon when it was pointed at them?
Clearly, actors point weapons at other actors for gunfight scenes. Provisions are made for these scenes.
Did they err by standing directly in front of the weapon?

It has been reported that from one actor's description, the handgun training was rather haphazard.

It's almost certain that multiple errors occurred as far as weapon prep and handling, positioning, loading of the weapon, on and on. I hope that it will all be sorted out so that this can never happen again.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 12:55 PM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Now, the thread title is even worse. Better be left as originally worded:

"Alec Baldwin Kills One, Injures Another on Set"



There is no such thing as a "prop gun" that can fire a real bullet. It wouldn't be a "prop gun".

The mainstream media is now widely reporting the actor Alec Baldwin accidentally shot and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins with a “prop gun,” characterizing the shooting as a “mishap” that also involved the wounding of film director Joel Souza who, “is expected to survive,” according to media reports.

According to the UK Daily Mail, when Baldwin pulled the trigger of the so-called “prop gun,” it “somehow unintentionally launched a projectile or projectiles at the crew members.”

There are news for you. That’s a real gun, not a prop gun. Any gun that, when the trigger is pulled, accelerates a projectile down a barrel with enough speed to strike and kill another person is, in fact, a functioning real gun. Calling it a “prop gun” is deliberately misleading, because it implies the firearm does not function. Clearly, Baldwin was firing a functioning gun.


The media misleading? Perish the thought, for never but never have they reached conclusions based on partial or even an absence of facts.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 1:22 PM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

My heart goes out to everyone involved. The dead and her family and friends, the director and also Baldwin who now has to live with his part in it, however accidental. It's just a damned tragedy.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Seems clear it was an accident, but to early to say what happened or who's culpable. Was Baldwin directed to "shoot" the weapon? Was Baldwin clowning around and it went off? Did Baldwin trip and accidentally set it off? Was he given the wrong prop for the scene?

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 4:10 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

It sounds to me like it's going to turn out like the helicopter incident in the filming of Twilight Zone: The Movie. Proper precautions weren't followed and disaster was the result.


That was my first thought.

God, what a tragic mess that was--and this is.
And completely preventable.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 4:34 PM   
 By:   Sehnsuchtshafen   (Member)

The media seem to be covering up the incident in favour of Baldwin.

At this stage we know nothing for certain except that Baldwin shot someone dead and seriously injured another.

The circumstances of how it all happened are still unclear to outsiders.
Was it really "accidental"?
Perhaps it was negligence?

Let the investigation be profound and committed to the absolute truth.


Anyone who has taken firearms training knows the four rules of gun safety:

1) Assume that all firearms are loaded.

2) Never point the gun at a person you do not intend to kill.

3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to shoot.

4) Know what is behind your target because bullets can travel a long distance and hit things you did not mean to hit.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 5:36 PM   
 By:   Nightingale   (Member)

The media seem to be covering up the incident in favour of Baldwin.

At this stage we know nothing for certain except that Baldwin shot someone dead and seriously injured another.

The circumstances of how it all happened are still unclear to outsiders.
Was it really "accidental"?
Perhaps it was negligence?

Let the investigation be profound and committed to the absolute truth.


Anyone who has taken firearms training knows the four rules of gun safety:

1) Assume that all firearms are loaded.

2) Never point the gun at a person you do not intend to kill.

3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to shoot.

4) Know what is behind your target because bullets can travel a long distance and hit things you did not mean to hit.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a shooting course I took many years ago, #2 was: Never let the barrel point (or sweep) at anything you're not willing to kill or destroy.

Oh man, here's some more irony-the Connery quote (and then repeated by Baldwin) from The Hunt for Red October just came to mind:

"Hey Ryan. Be careful what you shoot at, hmm? Most things in here don't react too well to bullets.”


 
 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 7:44 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

The media seem to be covering up the incident in favour of Baldwin.

At this stage we know nothing for certain except that Baldwin shot someone dead and seriously injured another.

The circumstances of how it all happened are still unclear to outsiders.
Was it really "accidental"?


Since you "ask" skeptically, I say "NO!"

Perhaps it was negligence?

Again,"NO!" He definitely committed a coldblooded, premeditated murder. He wasn't just an actor, he's the film producer. Producers are always killing their cinematographers. At least in the movies. If Ned Beatty wasn't still dead, I'd accuse him.

 
 Posted:   Oct 22, 2021 - 8:02 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

The media seem to be covering up the incident in favour of Baldwin.

At this stage we know nothing for certain except that Baldwin shot someone dead and seriously injured another.

The circumstances of how it all happened are still unclear to outsiders.
Was it really "accidental"?
Perhaps it was negligence?

Let the investigation be profound and committed to the absolute truth.


Anyone who has taken firearms training knows the four rules of gun safety:

1) Assume that all firearms are loaded.

2) Never point the gun at a person you do not intend to kill.

3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to shoot.

4) Know what is behind your target because bullets can travel a long distance and hit things you did not mean to hit.


How are the media covering the tragedy in Baldwin's favor? Based on accidental gun deaths in the US, gun safety is not of high priority.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 5:33 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)


How are the media covering the tragedy in Baldwin's favor? Based on accidental gun deaths in the US, gun safety is not of high priority.


Obviously, this is a very real tragedy. However, there are usually safety precautions on set. Most of the time, prop guns are not "real" in the sense that they are made dysfunctional. Most of the time, there is no live ammunition on a film set. Most of the time, everything is double checked.

Now, what happened here is either safety precautions not properly followed or safety precautions too lax and something slipped through, or it was really a freak accident (could happen that a "cold" weapon still "shoots" particles - perhaps shooting out the gas noozle which is actually welded into the gun to prevent stuff like this to happen). I don't know yet what happened, but considering how many millions of bullets Hollywood shoots out decade for decade in movies and how dangerous even "cold" guns are, accidents like this are -- fortunately -- still comparatively rare.

Again, this is not meant as "everything is good as it is" statement, but simply pointing out that already lots of safety precautions are in place, or stuff like this would happen far, far more often.

I'm sure that as a result of what is most likely a very tragic accident, there will be a hard look at what happened here and what can be done to minimize the chance of this happening again.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 6:50 AM   
 By:   Sehnsuchtshafen   (Member)

How are the media covering the tragedy in Baldwin's favor?


Just look at how they use their words. Maybe it's not that obvious for some? MSM sort of downplay the case, making it look like the gun fired all alone, and, merely by accident Baldwin was there and held it in his hands when the shot(s) went off.

The killed women could still be alive and be with her family today if everybody took their job seriously two days ago.

It will be interesting to see what the official outcome of the investigation will be.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 7:27 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

How are the media covering the tragedy in Baldwin's favor?


Just look at how they use their words. Maybe it's not that obvious for some? MSM sort of downplay the case, making it look like the gun fired all alone, and, merely by accident Baldwin was there and held it in his hands when the shot(s) went off.

The killed women could still be alive and be with her family today if everybody took their job seriously two days ago.

It will be interesting to see what the official outcome of the investigation will be.


"An assistant director grabbed one of three prop guns that the film’s armorer had set up outside on a gray cart, handed it to Mr. Baldwin, and, according to an affidavit signed by Detective Joel Cano of the Santa Fe County sheriff’s office, yelled “Cold Gun!” — which was supposed to indicate that the gun did not have any live rounds in it.

When Mr. Baldwin fired the gun, law enforcement officials said, it struck and killed the film’s cinematographer and wounded its director — and raised new questions about firearms safety on film sets.

The assistant director “did not know live rounds were in the prop-gun” when he gave it to Mr. Baldwin, according to the affidavit, which was made as part of a search warrant application. The affidavit did not specify what kind of ammunition the gun had been loaded with."

Baldwin was one of the producers of the film. I guess the buck stops with him if his team did not follow proper protocols. All that is yet to be determined. But clearly from the above statement, Baldwin had no idea he was give a "hot" gun nor did the assistant director, director of photography or director himself.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 8:02 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Ned Beatty faked his own death so he could be venerated on FSM, and later set-up Baldwin with a murder. It's so obvious.

 
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