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 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 1:22 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)



Really? So anyone from another country can waltz into your country with no ID, no papers, no Visa, legally and live there permanently and demand you either learn THEIR language or teach them yours? You are clearly ignorant of the immigration laws here if you are referring to the whole Mexico debacle. Anyone from anywhere in the world can immigrant here if they go through the LEGAL process...anyone. Can you say the same for most other countries? No. Also, you aren't flipping the bills for all the illegals moving here. We are. Our taxes get them welfare, health care, food stamps, schooling, etc...they pay no taxes because they are not in the tax system. What am I saying...you already understand all this because you are so smart, right?


Anyone who wants to live here has to apply for a visa, same as with your country. But our economy doesn't rely on our illegal immigrants which is probably why your government keeps an eye shut when it comes to the backbone of your economy. Who else is going to do your dirty work?


BTW, can you go out and buy an automatic weapon in Belgium without a permit or license? You can here. Just asking. This guy in Belgium seems to contradict what you are saying about having the same rights as we do. Looks like you are losing your gun rights there buddy. Too bad you don't have a constitution to guarantee those freedoms.


Euhm. I don't want to own a gun. Nor do I want my neighbours or fellow citizens to own guns. That's a stupid right. The middle ages are long gone.

And if you think you and your gunslingers stand a chance against your government, I hope you'll find a refrigerator fast enough when they nuke the shit out of you wink

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 1:51 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Well, this has all gone political.

The usual polarizing to extremes. If you have free medicine you must be a Communist. I think social medicine is the backbone of a really developed civilisation, but hey?

I was sort of hoping DanS was being tongue-in-cheek, a wind-up, but it looks not so.

Why is it so hard to understand that an average citizen, who isn't in the armed forces or police, who isn't a farmer or game-warden, or a sportsman, just doesn't need a gun? At this point someone usually mentions that it's tied up with freedom and the Constitution, but that's not it. I wonder if these people feel that a billionaire has the 'right' afforded from the Constitution to buy a nuclear warhead? Then there's the 'our country was built on the gun', but that's not it either. You could say the same about the British Empire or ANYWHERE.

Just today, a nutcase went berserk in Wales, and shot several people. He had a gun.

Let's just be honest, it's a Hollywood Western fantasy.

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 2:08 PM   
 By:   Sehnsuchtshafen   (Member)

Certain posters like to see this thread closed because of political disputes. Please, don't let this happen because of provoked arguments in that specific direction.

The Euro Is Washed Up — But the Dollar Is No Better
by Claus Vogt
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/the-euro-is-washed-up-%E2%80%94-but-the-dollar-is-no-better-39275

'The Euro Zone Has Failed'
by Václav Klaus
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704875604575280452365548866.html?mod=e2tw

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 2:19 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Certain posters like to see this thread closed because of political disputes. Please, don't let this happen because of provoked arguments in that specific direction.


Hey, I'm just responding to what the people in your camp are saying about my turf wink. Af far as I'm concerned, this thread has been political from the start, as it has hardly addressed economics but your political agenda. I guess the only reason it's being tolerated is because it's not an American matter and it's turning into a laughing stock with all the weekends that have gone by.

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 3:11 PM   
 By:   DJS   (Member)



Just today, a nutcase went berserk in Wales, and shot several people. He had a gun.

Let's just be honest, it's a Hollywood Western fantasy.



Had he used a fork and spoon, a brick or rock...should we work on banning those? Yep...see the foolishness? Do stabbings prompt knife bans? Just sayin...

Oh and we just had a porn star go nuts in a CA office with a prop machete, kill a guy and wound two others. Should we ban porn film props, machetes, porn or both? smile

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 3:18 PM   
 By:   DJS   (Member)


Euhm. I don't want to own a gun. Nor do I want my neighbours or fellow citizens to own guns. That's a stupid right. The middle ages are long gone.

And if you think you and your gunslingers stand a chance against your government, I hope you'll find a refrigerator fast enough when they nuke the shit out of you wink



I notice you did not refute any of my points. Lol, a government would not nuke itself, silly man. The military in and of itself is very conservative. They'd defend the Constitution before the President's orders against his own people (read their military vows). Think of it as a grunt taking out his leading officer if the Admiral was leading them all into a futile ambush.

Don't forget, our 'gunslingers' kept you all from speaking German. So anyway, back to the dollar and Euro crashing....

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 4:02 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)


Don't forget, our 'gunslingers' kept you all from speaking German.


German, alongside french and flemish is an official language in Belgium so we are taught it anyway (alongside english), but that aside, Europe will always be in debt to the US, UK and Russia for WWII. My grandfather fought in that war and was even a prisoner of war. I don't speak of it lightly.

But today is a different ballgame. You got fathers putting a bullet in their family's heads and killing themselves along with them. You got frustrated teens stepping into schools with rifles and taking out classrooms, you got armed robberies, snipers, religious fanatics... I somehow feel a lot safer knowing that these people don't have access to any guns.

And let's face it, not everyone knows how to handle a gun. How many deaths occur from kids finding their dad's gun or rifle, or accidental shootings?

That's reason enough for me to prefer regulation of gun possession.

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 7:41 PM   
 By:   DJS   (Member)


Don't forget, our 'gunslingers' kept you all from speaking German.


German, alongside french and flemish is an official language in Belgium so we are taught it anyway (alongside english), but that aside, Europe will always be in debt to the US, UK and Russia for WWII. My grandfather fought in that war and was even a prisoner of war. I don't speak of it lightly.

But today is a different ballgame. You got fathers putting a bullet in their family's heads and killing themselves along with them. You got frustrated teens stepping into schools with rifles and taking out classrooms, you got armed robberies, snipers, religious fanatics... I somehow feel a lot safer knowing that these people don't have access to any guns.

And let's face it, not everyone knows how to handle a gun. How many deaths occur from kids finding their dad's gun or rifle, or accidental shootings?

That's reason enough for me to prefer regulation of gun possession.


I wish guns were not necessary either, but they are. Without guns, if your gov becomes tyrannical, what can you do? Yup, nothing...because they have the guns and you don't. Look at Switzerland. They have extremely lenient gun laws and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Education is priceless when it comes to guns (just like driving...in the inexperienced hands it can be deadly). If more people had guns, idiots wouldn't be going on large shooting sprees. They'd be taken down before a lot of the people got killed. If someone opened fire on you, wouldn't you like to have a firearm to return the favor? I have no problem with people not wanting to have anything to do with guns but when they try to infringe on my right to have one, that's different. There's a saying: 'When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Guns'. If people expected other people to be armed, I bet there wouldn't be too many shootings because they know they'd be taken out pretty quick (think Switzerland and why they have almost no crime...because chances are...the person you are going to rob will put a bullet in you).

I can honestly say when food and tax riots begin because of this failing economy (and they will happen eventually, even Celente predicts) I will be armed with more than a spatula and a phone to call for police that will be too busy to respond to my needs. Yes, it sucks we need any form of weapon in this world, but sadly we do and there are no signs of Jean Luc Picard's dream of humanity coming together in perfect harmony anytime soon..

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 7:58 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)

This is- fascinating.

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 8:11 PM   
 By:   Maleficio   (Member)

food riots?

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 9:01 PM   
 By:   DJS   (Member)

food riots?

Yes, food riots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QCyhi-6EFc

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 9:06 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)


Don't forget, our 'gunslingers' kept you all from speaking German.


German, alongside french and flemish is an official language in Belgium so we are taught it anyway (alongside english), but that aside, Europe will always be in debt to the US, UK and Russia for WWII. My grandfather fought in that war and was even a prisoner of war. I don't speak of it lightly.

But today is a different ballgame. You got fathers putting a bullet in their family's heads and killing themselves along with them. You got frustrated teens stepping into schools with rifles and taking out classrooms, you got armed robberies, snipers, religious fanatics... I somehow feel a lot safer knowing that these people don't have access to any guns.

And let's face it, not everyone knows how to handle a gun. How many deaths occur from kids finding their dad's gun or rifle, or accidental shootings?

That's reason enough for me to prefer regulation of gun possession.


I wish guns were not necessary either, but they are. Without guns, if your gov becomes tyrannical, what can you do? Yup, nothing...because they have the guns and you don't. Look at Switzerland. They have extremely lenient gun laws and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Education is priceless when it comes to guns (just like driving...in the inexperienced hands it can be deadly). If more people had guns, idiots wouldn't be going on large shooting sprees. They'd be taken down before a lot of the people got killed. If someone opened fire on you, wouldn't you like to have a firearm to return the favor? I have no problem with people not wanting to have anything to do with guns but when they try to infringe on my right to have one, that's different. There's a saying: 'When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Guns'. If people expected other people to be armed, I bet there wouldn't be too many shootings because they know they'd be taken out pretty quick (think Switzerland and why they have almost no crime...because chances are...the person you are going to rob will put a bullet in you).

I can honestly say when food and tax riots begin because of this failing economy (and they will happen eventually, even Celente predicts) I will be armed with more than a spatula and a phone to call for police that will be too busy to respond to my needs. Yes, it sucks we need any form of weapon in this world, but sadly we do and there are no signs of Jean Luc Picard's dream of humanity coming together in perfect harmony anytime soon..


It'll make STRAW DOGS look like a picnic.

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 9:32 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)

I feel for you though, living in a place where your government has complete control over you and your freedoms are not guaranteed by anyone but them and you usually have nothing but pitchforks and clubs to defend yourself. My sympathies.


... Where do you get this notion? Have you even been to Belgium? We have as much freedoms as you do and even more I should say as and we don't have economical embargo's imposed on us and get to travel where we want (plus we don't build a wall with guards to keep out our southern neighbors, Spain excluded as they aren't keen on Africans coming across).


Really? So anyone from another country can waltz into your country with no ID, no papers, no Visa, legally and live there permanently and demand you either learn THEIR language or teach them yours? You are clearly ignorant of the immigration laws here if you are referring to the whole Mexico debacle. Anyone from anywhere in the world can immigrant here if they go through the LEGAL process...anyone. Can you say the same for most other countries? No. Also, you aren't flipping the bills for all the illegals moving here. We are. Our taxes get them welfare, health care, food stamps, schooling, etc...they pay no taxes because they are not in the tax system. What am I saying...you already understand all this because you are so smart, right?

...and if socialized medicine and socialism itself is so great...why is super socialist Greece bankrupt? Why do Canadians choose to come here for medical care (and pay) when theirs is free? That's right, because free health care is the longest wait with the crappiest service imaginable because any doctor in his right mind would not work for substandard government pay (100K per year rather than 400K+ in the private industry). Wait two months for free health care with cattle-herding service, or pay and get excellent and fast treatment. Hmm.

BTW, can you go out and buy an automatic weapon in Belgium without a permit or license? You can here. Just asking. This guy in Belgium seems to contradict what you are saying about having the same rights as we do. Looks like you are losing your gun rights there buddy. Too bad you don't have a constitution to guarantee those freedoms.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_53/ai_n27126468/


PERFECTLY STATED.

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2010 - 9:34 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)


Don't forget, our 'gunslingers' kept you all from speaking German.


German, alongside french and flemish is an official language in Belgium so we are taught it anyway (alongside english), but that aside, Europe will always be in debt to the US, UK and Russia for WWII. My grandfather fought in that war and was even a prisoner of war. I don't speak of it lightly.

But today is a different ballgame. You got fathers putting a bullet in their family's heads and killing themselves along with them. You got frustrated teens stepping into schools with rifles and taking out classrooms, you got armed robberies, snipers, religious fanatics... I somehow feel a lot safer knowing that these people don't have access to any guns.

And let's face it, not everyone knows how to handle a gun. How many deaths occur from kids finding their dad's gun or rifle, or accidental shootings?

That's reason enough for me to prefer regulation of gun possession.


People need to learn how to use one.

 
 Posted:   Jun 3, 2010 - 12:01 AM   
 By:   Sehnsuchtshafen   (Member)

It'll make STRAW DOGS look like a picnic.

People living in cities would wish to live in a STRAW DOGS environment. CHILDREN OF MEN contains some scenes that give you a realistic perspective of what's coming in certain areas. The non-fertility problem handled in this film is basically the McGuffin, i.e. unimportant. Mainly it's about a failing society. You get the picture of riots, terror and abuse.

In the mean time, it's quite openly discussed in the mass medias over here, in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, that Germany should better leave the Euro. Of course, there are plenty of experts, politicians or journalists who ridicule the idea. But it's now talked about with less secrecy than before when I've started the thread. So, people who get impatient shouldn't be. They'll get their show.

The new DEM won't save Germany, of course. The country, its banks etc. are too deep into debts. Until those debt problems aren't solved nothing will change for the better. When European States decided to create the Eurozone they've already been in near-default. The Euro just helped them to stay on track for another 10 years or so.

 
 Posted:   Jun 3, 2010 - 12:14 AM   
 By:   Sehnsuchtshafen   (Member)

[...]
(think Switzerland and why they have almost no crime...because chances are...the person you are going to rob will put a bullet in you)
[...]



In Switzerland, too, there have been serious debates to disarm the people. Saying that most family murders were executed by military fire arms (which isn't true BTW). In this country, every Swiss soldier can keep his fire arm at home. Now, that's changed. It's not totally forbidden yet. But the politicians raised the pressure on them to deliver their weapons to the state which would have been taboo 10 years ago. It's a way to disarm the people. Imagine what happens when they, the people, find out why the powers that be implemented this scheme. Another riot; just without the arms.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 3, 2010 - 12:40 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

If someone opened fire on you, wouldn't you like to have a firearm to return the favor? I have no problem with people not wanting to have anything to do with guns but when they try to infringe on my right to have one, that's different. There's a saying: 'When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Guns'. If people expected other people to be armed, I bet there wouldn't be too many shootings because they know they'd be taken out pretty quick

You bet wrong. In the majority of the cases where these spree killers don't commit suicide, they get tracked down and shot within the same day and by people who are trained to do so. Supplying people with guns is not the solution. That's what got us in this mess in the first place.

I will tell you that just two months ago in my town a guy killed his son and drove on to the next town to kill his ex-girlfriend, only to get shot down by the police himself (and not without taking out one of the officers in the process). It was a sad affair and what's even sadder is that the police had knowledge of this person housing guns (he was taken to court before for illegal gun possession) and they didn't act on it.

The degree of paranoid behavior on display in this thread, not just about this issue but also the Euro, the post-apocalyptic future Chris is seeing, is what's really disturbing IMO.

I hope you guys aren't sitting in a basement filled with weapons waiting for the shit go down, because I have a saying as well: "If you expect something to happen, you will make it happen for you".

 
 Posted:   Jun 3, 2010 - 3:07 AM   
 By:   Sehnsuchtshafen   (Member)

The degree of paranoid behavior on display in this thread, not just about this issue but also the Euro, the post-apocalyptic future Chris is seeing, is what's really disturbing IMO.

I hope you guys aren't sitting in a basement filled with weapons waiting for the shit go down, because I have a saying as well: "If you expect something to happen, you will make it happen for you".



Good, after all you are disturbed, finally. Look and listen:



Of course, this speach was held mainly for somebody who would post it on youtube as soon as possible.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 3, 2010 - 3:19 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

Oh yes, I love that clip. Good for him, he got fined for that, but he's asking the questions that we want to ask. He is dead right about the lack of democracy, it is a stranger to the EU. People don't seem to notice that we're losing it a tiny bit at a time, but losing it we are.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 3, 2010 - 4:04 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

LOL. I had not seen this Van Rompuy clip before hehe. That this British gentlemen does not know him, is actually a sign of ignorance on his part, as Van Rompuy is quite a seasoned politician in Belgium and our prime minister from 2008 till 2009, a role that got handed to him not due to popular vote but a mediary role after our government collapsed that year. He's like the vice president who became president. But the man has little charisma or presence and he's part of the Christian Democracts, the party that didn't manage to deliver after its last electoral victory and is doomed to pay for it in the upcoming election this month.

What's even funnier is that the man who wanted this job, Guy Verhofstadt, is texting on his blackberry during that guy's speech and obviously is glad he didn't get it.

What in earth this clip is suppose to mean as a reaction to my statement has me baffled. I guess it's Chris' usual way of using google tactics to support his political agenda? A cheap shot at Belgium? I guess I could reply by saying that your arguments are like Swiss cheese, big on the outside but filled with holes.

It's good in a sense that people like Chris only get to post on message boards such as this and not in a respected medium where you actually have to do more research than scavenge youtube or tabloids for articles that support your radical beliefs.

 
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