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 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 2:37 PM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

Over many years, I have compiled a list of film scores, classical works, game scores, etc. that contain (or supposedly contain) a quote of the famous Dies Irae tune. Much of this information has come from web sources, including several FSM discussions, but I like to personally verify any claim. I've discovered many of them by just having a movie or soundtrack playing in the background.

I am simply fascinated by this tune, and I would hesitate to suggest that any other tune has been quoted more often by such a diverse group of composers in such a diverse number of ways.

Please let me know of any additions to the list. If you can verify some of the ones that I am unsure about, please let me know the place in the movie or musical work where the Dies Irae quote appears. I’d be appreciative!

---yes---
Addison, John: Grace Quigley
Ades, Thomas: Totentanz
Alkan, Charles-Valentin: Trois morceaux dans le genre pathetique
Alessandroni, Allessandro: Suor Omicidi (Killer Nun)
Alessandroni, Allessandro: The Devil's Nightmare
Alwyn, William: Burn, Witch, Burn (Night of the Eagle)
Amano, Masamichi: Giant Robo
Amano, Masamichi: Giant Robo 2
Andersen, Michael: Tower of London
Bathory: Album, "Blood Fire Death" (1988) - within 1st minute of album
Baxter, Les: Cervantes: The Young Rebel from LaMancha
Baxter, Les: Fall of the House of Usher
Berlioz, Hector: Symphonie Fantastique
Beltrami, Marco: Knowing
Bernstein, Elmer: Trial of Billy Jack
Bernstein, Elmer: Scarlet Letter (rejected score)
Bernstein, Elmer: The Field
Bernstein, Elmer: Heavy Metal
Bernstein, Elmer: Marie Ward
Bernstein, Elmer: Last Man Standing
Bernstein, Elmer: Gangs of New York (rejected score)
Bernstein, Elmer: Zulu Dawn
Bernstein, Elmer: Genocide
Bernstein, Elmer: Airplane
Blake, Howard: S.O.S. Titanic
Bloch, Ernest: Suite Symphonique
Bonis, Melanie: La Cathedrale Blessee, op. 107
Brahms, Johannes: Six Pieces for Piano, op. 118 #6
Broughton, Bruce: Cartoon Concerto
Bruneau, Alfred: Requiem
Burgon, Geoffrey: Requiem
Burgon, Geoffrey: Martin Chuzzlewit
Cardin, Matt: Daemonyx: Curse of the Daimon, "Road to Olduvai" (instrumental work)
Carlos, Wendy: The Shining
Carlos, Wendy: A Clockwork Orange
Carpi, Fiorenzo: Un Bianco Vestito Pre Mariale
Castelnuovo Tedesco, Mario: 24 Capricho de Goya (#12)
Chadwick, George: Tam O’Shanter
Charpentier, Marc-Antoine: Prose Des Morts
Chattaway, Jay: Maniac Cop 2
Clarke, Nigel and Michael Csanyi-Wills: The Rocket Post
Crumb, George: Black Angels
Dallapiccola, Luigi: Canti di prigionia
Daugherty, Michael: Metropolis Symphony/Red Cape Tango
Daugherty, Michael: Dead Elvis
Davies, Peter Maxwell: The Devils (subtle in "Titles", bits in "Execution")
Davis, Don: Matrix Revolutions
de Pablo, Luis: El Sonido de la Muerte/Sound of Horror (a joke of sorts on the radio)
Debney, John: End of Days
Delerue, Georges: Black Robe
Djawadi, Ramin: Westworld, season 3, not just the Shining reference, but other places as well
Dohnanyi, Erno: Rhapsodie for Piano, op. 11 #4
Doyle, Patrick: Needful Things
Elfman, Danny: The Nightmare Before Christmas
Elfman, Danny: Batman Returns
Emerson-Johnson, Jared: Sam & Max…Beyond Time and Space (VG)
Enid, The: In the Region of the Summer Stars, "Judgement Day" (instrumental)
Ferrio, Gianni: E divenne il piu spietato bandito del sud
Frankel, Benjamin: The Prisoner
Fried, Gerald: Return of Dracula
Fried, Gerald: Cruise into Terror (TV)(variation of Dies in main title)
Friedhofer, Hugo: Between Heaven and Hell
Gamely, Douglas: Vault of Horror
Garcia Morcillo, Fernando: The Witches' Mountain (El Monte de las Brujas)
Getz, Irving: The Creature Walks Among Us
Gibney, David: Superstition
Glasgow, Scott: LO
Glazanov, Alexander: From the Middle Ages
Godfrey, Robert John: song "Judgement Day"
Gold, Ernest: The Screaming Skull
Goldenthal, Elliot: Demolition Man
Goldsmith, Jerry: Gremlins 2
Goldsmith, Jerry: Poltergeist
Goldsmith, Jerry: Mephisto Waltz
Goldsmith, Jerry: Looney Tunes: Back in Action
Goldsmith, Jerry: The Shadow
Goldsmith, Jerry: The Other
Goldsmith, Joel: Maniac Cop 3
Gordon, Christopher: When Good Ghouls Go Bad
Gori, Lallo: Black Jack
Gould, Morton: Dance Variations
Gregson-Williams, Harry: Sinbad
Gross, Charles: Murders in the Rue Morgue
Guinjoan, Joan: Passim trio
Harnell, Joe: Curse of Dracula
Harris, Albert: Bacchanale
Hayman, Richard: Voodoo! (Midnight Ritual track)
Herrmann, Bernard: Jason and the Argonauts
Herrmann, Bernard: Garden of Evil
Herrmann, Bernard: Obsession
Herrmann, Bernard: Alfred Hitchcock Hour, "The Jar"
Hirschfelder, David: Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole
Holmes, Robert, etc.: Gabriel Knight 3 (VG)
Honegger, Arthur: La Danse de Morts
Horner, James: Where the River Runs Black
Huber, Hans: Symphony #3
Huppertz, Gottfried: Metropolis
Hyldgaard, Soren: Isle of Darkness
Ibert, Jacques: Golgotha
Ishii, Kan: Gorath
Jablonsky, Steve: D-Wars (VG)
Jarre, Maurice: Top Secret!
Jarre, Maurice: Vendredi ou la Vie Sauvage
Jones, Trevor: Hideaway
Kamen, Michael: 101 Dalmations
Karpman, Laura: Everquest II (VG)
Kay, Hershey: Cakewalk Ballet (after Gottschalk)
Khatchaturian, Aram: Symphony #2
Kiner, Kevin: Clone Wars (TV) in "The Clones" track
King, Rob: Heroes of Might and Magic V (VG)
Land, Michael, Bajakian, Clint, etc.: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (VG)
Lenz, Jack: Goosebumps (TV): The Girl Who Cried Monster, A Night in Terror Tower, others?
Lewis, Michael J.: The Medusa Touch
Ligeti, Gyorgy: Le Grande Macabre
Liszt, Franz: Totentanz
Loeffler, Charles Martin: Divertissement in a-minor
Lopez, Robert and Kristen: Frozen: The Musical ("Monster")
Lorenc, Michal: Prowokator
Manfredini, Harry: Friday the 13th V
Manfredini, Harry: Friday the 13th VI
Manfredini, Harry: Friday the 13th VII: The New Blood
Manfredini, Harry: Friday the 13th: The Game
Marianelli, Dario: A Long Way Down
Matacic, Lovro von: Confrontation Symphony
Mayuzumi, Toshiro: The Bible...The Beginning
McConnell, Peter: Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft (VG)
McCreary, Bear: Agents of SHIELD - one of the later 1st season episodes (should have written it down)
McCreary, Bear: Eli
Medtner, Nikolai: Piano Quintet
Melvins, The: Nude with Boots album, in "Dies Iraea"
Menken, Alan: Hunchback of Notre Dame
Messager, Andre: Veronique
Morcillo, Fernando Garcia: The Howl of the Devil (1987)
Morricone, Ennio: Vamos a Matar, Companeros (La Loro Patria #3)
Morricone, Ennio: I Malamondo
Morricone, Ennio: The Mission
Morricone, Ennio: Smile of the Great Temptress
Morricone, Ennio: Escalation
Morricone, Ennio: Padre Pio
Morricone, Ennio: Guns for San Sebastian
Morricone, Ennio: I Pugni in Tasca
Morricone, Ennio: Commandamenti per un gangster
Morricone, Ennio: Addio Fratello Crudele (in frate bonaventura and in fondo al pozzo)
Morricone, Ennio: Il Gatto
Morricone, Ennio: Amanti D'Oltre Tomba (Nightmare Castle)
Morricone, Ennio: Galileo
Morricone, Ennio: Maddalena
Morricone, Ennio: La Migliore Offerta (The Best Offer)
Morricone, Ennio: El Greco (it's the actual chant)
Morricone, Ennio: Noi Lazzaroni
Myaskovsky, Nicolai: Symphony #6
Myaskovsky, Nicolai: Piano Sonata #2
Myers, Stanley: Witches
Newman, David: The Runestone
Newman, Lionel: Compulsion (character hums it after 1:03:20)
Nordgren, Erik: The Seventh Seal
North, Alex: Agony and the Ecstasy
Novak, Vitezslav: “May” Symphony
Peaslee, Richard: The Garden of Earthly Delights (ballet)
Penhorwood, Edwin: An American Requiem
Pes, Carlo: Professionisti per un massacro
Poledouris, Basil: Conan the Barbarian
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Isle of Dead
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Symphony #1
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Symphony #2
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Symphony #3
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: The Bells
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Symphonic Dances
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Piano Sonata #1, 3rd mvt.
Respighi, Ottorino: Brazilian Sketches
Robinson, Harry: Lust for a Vampire
Romero, Paul: Heroes of Might and Magic III (VG)
Romitelli, Sante Maria: The Seducers (Top Sensation)
Romitelli, Sante Maria: Spara, Gringo, Spara (probably, recurring theme is variation)
Rosenman, Leonard: The Car
Rosenthal, Laurence: Beckett
Rustichelli, Carlo: Ro.Go.Pa.G. (La Ricotta segment)
Rozsa, Miklos: El Cid
Rozsa, Miklos: Diane
Rozsa, Miklos: Young Bess
Rozsa, Miklos: Fantasy on Themes of Young Bess
Rubin, Marcel: Symphony #4 ("Dies Irae")
Saint-Saens, Camille: Danse Macabre
Saint-Saens, Camille: Requiem
Savina, Carlo: L'Araucana - Massacro Dei Dei
Savina, Carlo: I Diabolici Convegni
Schierbeck, Poul: Vredens Dag/Day of Wrath (1943)
Schikele, Peter: Brass Calendar
Schikele, Peter: The Short-Tempered Clavier (mvt. viii)
Schikele, Peter: Unbegun Symphony
Schnitke, Alfred: Agonia
Schwartz, David: The Good Place, Season 1, Episode 11
Schyman, Garry: Dante’s Inferno (VG)
Scott, John: Witchcraft
Scott, John: The Scarlet Tunic
Sculthorpe, Peter: Memento Mori
Sgambati, Giovanni: Messa da requiem
Shire, David: The Big Bus
Shostakovich, Dmitri: Hamlet
Snipes, Jonathan and Hutson, William: Room 237 (Dies Irae)
Sondheim, Stephen: Sweeny Todd
Sorabji, Kaikhosru: Sequentia Cyclica
Stravinsky, Igor: Octet for Wind Instruments
Sukman, Harry: Salem’s Lot
Tanaka, Kohei: Gravity Rush 2 (VG)
Tchaikovsky, Peter: Manfred Symphony
Tchaikovsky, Peter: Orchestral Suite #3
Ticheli, Frank: Vesuvius
Tiomkin, Dimitri: It’s a Wonderful Life
Tiomkin, Dimitri: The Unforgiven (between 1 hour and 1 hour, 1 minute)
Tiomkin, Dimitri: Angel on my Shoulder
Tiomkin, Dmitri: I Confess
Tiomkin, Dmitri: Search for Paradise
Tubin, Eduard: Symphony #3
Tyler, Brian: Iron Man 3
Uematsu, Nobuo: Final Fantasy IX (VG)
unknown: Zombies Ate My Neighbors (VG)
unknown: Gauntlet Legends (VG)
unknown: Jabberwocky
van Parys, Georges: Le Mouton a Cinq Pattes
Velazquez, Fernando: Crimson Peak
Waxman, Franz: Prince Valiant
Whitaker, David: Vampire Circus
Whitaker, David: The Sword and the Sorcerer
Williams, John: Home Alone (4 notes as kids look at Old Man Marley)
Williams, John: Star Wars
Williams, John: Attack of the Clones
Young, Christopher: Murder in the First
Ysaye, Eugene: Sonata #2 for Solo Violin
Zanelli, Geoff: Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales
Zimmer, Hans: The Peacemaker
Zimmer, Hans: The Road to El Dorado
Zimmer, Hans: Crimson Tide
Zimmer, Hans: The Lion King
Zimmer, Hans: Mission Impossible 2
Zimmer, Hans: Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides
Zimmer, Hans: The Rock; "Rock House Jail"
Zimmer, Hans: The Ring
Zimmermann, Bernd: Musique pour les soupers du roi ubu

---Maybe (I hear the reference, but is it just coincidental or just “in the style of”???)---

Bernard, James: Dracula has Risen from the Grave (main/end titles) have 1st 5 notes
Bernstein, Elmer: The Black Caulderon - in bells on Special Pig?, "Decision"?, "Apology"?
Bernstein, Elmer: Fear Strikes Out (main title seems to vary theme to Dies Irae shape)
Dragon, Carmen: Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956), similar shape about 4 times during film
Elfman, Danny: Sleepy Hallow
Elfman, Danny: Mars Attacks!
Elgar, Edward: The Wand of Youth
Fenton, George: Groundhog Day
Furst, Nathan: Bionicle 2: Legends of Metru Nui
Gamely, Douglas: Tales from the Crypt (36:30 and 47:30 similar but not exact)
Giacchino, Michael: Lost, Kate's Theme, as in Season 1, Episode 22 "Born to Run"
Giacchino, Michael: Rogue One
Goldsmith, Jerry: Basic Instinct
Goldsmith, Jerry: The Omen (4 notes are inverted in title)
Grantham, Donald: Baron Cimetiere’s Mambo
Harrison, John: Creepshow
Herrmann, Bernard: Citizen Kane
Horner, James: The Land Before Time
Lopez, Robert and Kristen: Frozen II; song "Into the Unknown"
Mahler, Gustav: Das Klagende Lied
Mahler, Gustav: Symphony #2
McCreary, Bear: 10 Cloverfield Lane
McCreary, Bear: Colossal
Morricone, Ennio: Allonsanfan (tune in Te Deum and others is Dies like)
Mussorgsky, Modest: St. Johns Night on Bald Mountain
Mussorgsky, Modest: Songs and Dances of Death
Nascimbene, Mario: The Vikings
Navarrete, Javier: Inkheart
Pipes, Douglas: Krampus
Rachmainoff, Sergei: With Rachmaninoff, you can almost assume that anything with the first 4 notes or the shape of the first phrase is a deliberate reference. The following, though, are more subtle: Prince Rostislav, Moment Musical op. 16 #3, Second Suite for Two Pianos, op. 17, Prelude in e minor op. 32 #4, Etude Tableau op. 33 #1, Etude Tableau op. 33 #4, Etude Tableau in a minor op. 39 #2, In the Garden at Night op. 38 #1, Piano Concerto #4 (original version) 3rd movement
Saint-Saens, Camille: Symphony #3 (a similar motif in agitato form)
Shostakovich, Dmitri: String Quartet #8
Shostakovich, Dmitri: Symphony #14 (4 notes in opening)
Silvestri, Alan: Avengers: Infinity War
Smith, Paul: “Trick of Treat” cartoon short
Strauss, Richard: Till Eulenspiegel (first 4 notes here and there may work story-wise)
van Parys, Georges: Les Diaboliques
Walker, Shirley: Batman: Mask of the Phantasm ("Birth of Batman" and "Phantasm/Joker fight" has 4 notes)
Whitaker, David: Dr. Jeckyl and Sister Hyde
Williams, John: Jurassic Park
Williams, John: Amistad
Williams, John: Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind
Williams, John: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Williams, John: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Williams, John: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls
Zimmer, Hans: Bird on a Wire

---Probably Not/Definitely Not (I don't think so, but it has been mentioned)---
Barry, John: Midnight Cowboy
Barry, John: Lion in Winter
Carpenter, John and Howarth, Alan: Big Trouble in Little China
Debney, John: Bruce Almighty (Seventh at Seven) - 4 notes, but probably not
Djawadi, Ramin: Game of Thrones, Season 5 Episode 1
Gounod, Charles: Faust (someone mentioned Act 4, but I don't hear it)
Goldsmith, Jerry: Sleeping with the Enemy - it's Berlioz source music
Haydn, Joseph: Symphony #103 “Drumroll”
Herrmann, Bernard: 7th Voyage of Sinbad
Holst, Gustav: The Planets (Saturn)
Huber, Hans: Symphony #2 (I don't hear it)
Jackman, Henry: Wreck-It-Ralph
Jarre, Maurice: The Collector (I don't hear it on the original album)
Kawasaki, Yasuhiro: Pandora’s Tower (VG) - uses Verdi's Dies Irae
Ligeti, Gyorgy: Requiem
Monty Python: The Holy Grail ("Hand Grenade of Antioch" has a different chant)
Morricone, Ennio: Le trio infernal (Dies Irae is sung, but not same tune)
Newman, David: Duplex (not on soundtrack; film uses Mozart's Dies Irae)
Ottman, John: X-Men 2 (wrong Dies Irae)
Prokofiev, Sergei: Alexander Nevsky
Rachmaninoff, Sergei: The Rock
Saint-Saens, Camille: Organ Variations (Is there such a work?)
Schubert, Franz: Death and the Maiden (lied)
Searle, Humphrey: The Haunting (I don't hear it.)
Shore, Howard: Fellowship of the Rings
Stravinsky, Igor: Rite of Spring (The Sacrifice Intro and Mystic Circles is similar, coincidental?)
unknown: Shriek of the Mutilated (not counting it - there is no original score, just needle-drops Berlioz)
Young, Christopher: Bless This Child (has a track called "Dies Irae," but I don't hear the "famous" tune)


---Unverified
Chion, Michel: On the Roots' album And Then You Shoot Your Cousin, "Dies Irae"
de Pablo, Luis: El Sonido de la Muerte/Sound of Horror (being researched)
Drake, Christopher: Yoga Hosers
Hooper, Nellee: Romeo & Juliet (DiCaprio film)
Fox, Jim: Dracula's Widow (need to verify with a recording - if available)
Galas, Diamanda: Masque of the Red Death
Goldenthal, Elliot: Alien 3
Kamen, Michael: Lethal Weapon 3
Magne, Michael: Les Miserables (being researched)
Morricone, Ennio: Rampage (being researched)
Morricone, Ennio: Il Giardino delle delizie (being researched)
Morricone, Ennio: Tre Nel 1000
Silvestri, Alan: Predator
van Parys, Georges: Un Cheveu Sur La Soupe

 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 2:58 PM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

For your Harry Manfredini entry, the tune was used in Friday the 13th Part V as you mentioned, but it was also used (and to a much greater extent) in Friday the 13th Part VI.

Also, Brian Tyler quoted it in his score for Iron Man 3. When he quoted it, it was 5 out of the 7 notes; it might not have been quoted per se but it came extremely close, as if it were a variation on "Dies Irae" -- it's too close not to be intentional. Refer to the cue "The Mandarin" or towards the end of "Heat and Iron" for examples.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 3:15 PM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

Thanks for the tip on Iron Man 3. It certainly sounds "Dies Irae-ish". I'll want to hear it in context, but this is a promising start. Just heard the Friday the 13th quote on youtube! Great!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 5:21 PM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

File this under definite: Hector Berlioz used in quite prominently in the fifth movement of the Symphonie Fantastique.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 5:32 PM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

File this under definite: Hector Berlioz used in quite prominently in the fifth movement of the Symphonie Fantastique.

Yes, perhaps the most famous example in classical music left off the list. D'oh!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 5:50 PM   
 By:   Mike West   (Member)

Very interesting.

About musical quotes it is sometimes tricky, because the more "unremarkable" the original in terms of musical grammar the more exactly and decidedly the quote has to be to really reference.

With the dies irae chant we have a melody which uses a constellations of notes which is a something appearing all the time because of the design of musical grammar in western music.
The intervalls (thirds and seconds) are used in a sequence which exists actually (not audible) more or less in almost every minor mode and similar to minor mode modal keys compositions. Because they are part of a chord-sequence.
And we have no rhythm, in gregorian chant we know something about rhythms, but they were not written as today in the past at first, everybody singing them knew by tradition how the chant was to be performed.
So with all the same values of length there is no real profile of the melody setting it apart.

However, if it is used as melodic or thematic material, the composer has to design the set-up to make that clear and not just have notes of some chords which are there anyway.
And if someone quotes it, the same.

So, I am very sure that there is no Dies Irae quote in Star Wars and also not in Jurassic Park.
Which part of it do you mean? I know the scores quite well and I am 99 percent sure there is no deliberate quote.
Maybe it is in Close Encounters, I always thought that there is. It would make sense to reference it, and Williams would know to come so close to something.

That Schwarzenegger movie scored by Debney called End of Days has it I think quite prominently,
Debney uses only the first four notes, but because of the subject of the film and having a boy soprano this
compositional set-up is certainly something you would call a real quote.

I think it is not in Iron Man 3, this is certainly by accicent the same sequence of notes, which is not a quote.

I am quite sure it is not in Mahler 2#. I conducted that piece a couple of times, I don't remember.
Which movement is it supposed to appear in?

There is another M. Daughterty which quotes it, but I'd have to check my CDs to find out.

It is not in Home alone, this happens to be "carol of the bells" which has the same notes but different rhythms,
this is a russian christmas melody, not the Dies irae.

AND: you don't list maybe the most important quote of it in music history as the others already mentioned:
Hector Berlioz: Symphony Fantastique
the last movement is a delirious execution scene.
that has a quote of it which is very much discussed about in musicology, because it is one of the first real Programmmusik's , quoting the sphere of the dies irae

I am sure there are like 50 example in the list which do not have that at all, which is also not a question of style.
It is too basal in western music.

The first phrase of the Dies is 8 notes, the last one comes twice.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 6:11 PM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

In some cases, it is tough to tell if a quote is an actual Dies Irae reference, given, as was mentioned, the simple nature of the theme. Certainly, the length of the quote and the context play a role.

I listened to the "End of Days" theme on youtube just now. Very interesting. The 4 notes - given even just the title of the movie - would seem to be a possible reference. Was it intentional, or was Debney just going for that Dies Irae "sound" (sort of like how composers create the Carmina Burana sound without actually quoting it)? I'm interested in hearing more from this score!

I call "Star Wars" a maybe. When Luke sees the burning bodies of his uncle and aunt and the 4 notes are heard in repetition, there might have been a purposeful allusion to the Dies Irae. Or maybe not. I suppose Williams could tell us!

I would agree that the Mahler Symphony #2 is a probable "no". I listened to it a few weeks ago; there's a theme that first appears in the 1st movement and later returns in the 5th. It has a similar shape to the Dies Irae, perhaps, but not enough similarity to call it a reference. I don't hear it in "Home Alone" at all, but someone, somewhere claimed it was there.

I fixed the missing Berlioz. It's in my database, but when I couldn't cut and paste from the database, I ended up having to type the list over into a Word document before copying and pasting to the FSM board. It got lost in translation!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 6:21 PM   
 By:   Mike West   (Member)

In some cases, it is tough to tell if a quote is an actual Dies Irae reference, given, as was mentioned, the simple nature of the theme. Certainly, the length of the quote and the context play a role.

I listened to the "End of Days" theme on youtube just now. Very interesting. The 4 notes - given even just the title of the movie - would seem to be a possible reference. Was it intentional, or was Debney just going for that Dies Irae "sound" (sort of like how composers create the Carmina Burana sound without actually quoting it)? I'm interested in hearing more from this score!

I call "Star Wars" a maybe. When Luke sees the burning bodies of his uncle and aunt and the 4 notes are heard in repetition, there might have been a purposeful allusion to the Dies Irae. Or maybe not. I suppose Williams could tell us!


interesting thinking,
from an older musicians smile point of view, being very familiar with the idea and tradition of quoting in compositions ,
I am sure Debney deliberately quoted the Dies Irae. It makes perfect sense.

And from that point of view I'd say there is definetely no Dies Irae quote in Star Wars.
Look at the texts here. How often do phrases appear like "in my opinion", "from my point of view",
or also like "I like the", "there is a lot".
The exact number of identical syllables in the same order. Nobody would call that a quote or style.
It is immanent in english language and communication.

The minor/major-key and modal-key system in our customs of linear intervalls leads to that Dies Irae sequence by accident.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 6:33 PM   
 By:   Mike West   (Member)

Was it intentional, or was Debney just going for that Dies Irae "sound" (sort of like how composers create the Carmina Burana sound without actually quoting it)? I'm interested in hearing more from this score!

!


actually it is not really possible to just quote the sound or the aura of the Dies Irae.
that would be just the sound or the aura of medieval plain chant, or gregorian chant in a certain key.

to have the dies irae allusion it has to be the same sequence of intervalls.
and some features which make it clear this is meant as a quote, because it is not a quote when
it is not intented to be.
this is certainly not necessarily true with other aspects of composing. interpretations "the composer wanted to achieve a certain mood" are heading nowhere often. Speaking of music the intention and motivation of the composer and the outcome are things to be seperated when discussing.

But with quotes: it is not a quote when it is not deliberately used as a quote.
Though this is heading to quite deep aesthetic and philosophical terrain.

 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 7:03 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Add the rejected score to "Dracula's Widow".

 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 8:31 PM   
 By:   SBD   (Member)

I'm always quite tickled when I hear the Dies Irae in a film score. A few things:

- it's quite hard to miss in Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, as Walker used the first four notes of the melody for the old gang's theme; the scene where Andrea calls Arthur right when the Joker meets him features a rendition of the theme that puts such a knot in your stomach

- the version of it in The Shadow is there, albeit very drawn out (it appears in "The Clouded Mind" from 5:06-5:41 cf. the Intrada release)

- it also appears in The Black Cauldron ("Second Chase", 3:38-3:46, cf. Intrada)

- Home Alone's use is pretty blatant; the scene where the boys spy on Old Man Marley salting his walkway and he looks up at them

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2014 - 11:59 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

I believe it appears in Giant Robo in more than just the second one, but I forget where.

 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2014 - 12:35 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

All those composers' names listed, but no Max Steiner?
I can't think of an example, but surely he squeezed a Dies Irae into a score or two?
He was a master at weaving traditional or well-known pieces into his music.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2014 - 1:14 AM   
 By:   Mike West   (Member)



- Home Alone's use is pretty blatant; the scene where the boys spy on Old Man Marley salting his walkway and he looks up at them


I stand corrected, yes, this is very certainly a deliberate quote, and a more interesting use here because
Carol of the Bells features the exact same four notes and appears prominently later, after the Old Man is revealed to not ne threat, when the Old mysterious Man motif which obviously is a Dies Irae allusion does no longer appear.
Pretty sure Williams was aware of the intervallic similarities.



About many of the other examples I am suspicious, for sure some coincidences in there.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2014 - 3:50 AM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

Thanks for the additional examples. I'm adding them to the original list after I (attempt) to listen to them myself. Between Netflix, Amazon, Youtube, and Google searching, it's possible to hear most, but not all, of these cues.

Mike, I'm pretty conservative about which examples I put on the "definite list." If you think something is incorrectly classified, please let me know and I'll give it another listen. I can't get too much of this. I think I may be related to the Rach! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2014 - 4:01 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)



Impressive piece of work! You can safely put Lewis's Medusa Touch into the Definite column.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2014 - 4:19 AM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

I believe it appears in Giant Robo in more than just the second one, but I forget where.

It appears heavily in the track, Cataclysm over Paris. Another good addition!

 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2014 - 4:27 AM   
 By:   Hank V   (Member)

The El Cid and Diane quotes are definite.

El Cid, when Sancho kisses the cross on the sword and dies. Although the Tadlow rerecording seems to have a variation, the soundtrack has a definite Dies Irae quote.

Diane is similar to Young Bess for the death of the king. Both are beautifully done by Rózsa.

Also John Fitzpatrick wrote on The Rozsa Forum some time ago in a discussion about 'So Proudly We Hail' "Rozsa used the Dies Irae tune for a death scene here long before his three citations in historical stories -- and long before it became a Hollywood cliche. It occurs as a violin solo following the death of one of the nurses. Possibly the first instance in a Hollywood movie?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2014 - 4:40 AM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

Impressive piece of work! You can safely put Lewis's Medusa Touch into the Definite column.

I don't own the entire soundtrack to "The Medusa Touch". There's a 9:35 (excellent) suite on youtube, and I hear the first 4 notes of the Dies Irae played ominously on the organ. Because I haven't yet seen the movie, I don't know the context of the cue. Does the tune appear elsewhere in the score? Thanks!

 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2014 - 5:17 AM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

I think it is not in Iron Man 3, this is certainly by accicent the same sequence of notes, which is not a quote.

How do you know that "this is certainly by accident"?

 
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