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This won't be news to anyone familiar with an earlier thread on the subject, but I can't resist posing the same question that stumped folks for many months at that time: What is the longest sustained use of the Dies Irae (both tune and text) in a movie? (Yes, it is listed in the present thread.)
Not sure if the actual answer has been found...
Isn't it Friedhofer's Between Heaven and Hell?
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The latest Christopher Young 'The Piper' in its entirety is the DIes Irae motif reworked for flute, orchestra and voices...
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In case nobody has already mentioned this one: George Gershwin - Rhapsody In Blue. I’m not sure all of the examples were intentional quotations, although they clearly use those intervals. It’s almost like foundational music grammar at this point.
Well, that's why I would not include a reference that isn't an "actual" reference. You will always find some intervals, obviously, these are just building blocks. But the "Dies Irae" chant is often quoted in very specific and intentional ways, which isn't the same as coincidental similarities in intervals. I don't think the Rhapsody in Blue intentionally (or clearly recognizably) quotes the "Dies Irae".
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Posted: |
Apr 18, 2024 - 7:58 AM
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By: |
basmith
(Member)
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In case nobody has already mentioned this one: George Gershwin - Rhapsody In Blue. I’m not sure all of the examples were intentional quotations, although they clearly use those intervals. It’s almost like foundational music grammar at this point.
Well, that's why I would not include a reference that isn't an "actual" reference. You will always find some intervals, obviously, these are just building blocks. But the "Dies Irae" chant is often quoted in very specific and intentional ways, which isn't the same as coincidental similarities in intervals. I don't think the Rhapsody in Blue intentionally (or clearly recognizably) quotes the "Dies Irae".
You may be right about whether it is an intentional quote. But the intervals are very clearly recognizable, and repeated several times. Listen to the solo piano section in the middle, approximately 8:30 - 10:00. The phrase functions in the same way it functions in the Star Wars main theme, as a sort of descending response to the ascending call. I believe we should include both examples or neither, to be consistent.
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In case nobody has already mentioned this one: George Gershwin - Rhapsody In Blue. I’m not sure all of the examples were intentional quotations, although they clearly use those intervals. It’s almost like foundational music grammar at this point.
Well, that's why I would not include a reference that isn't an "actual" reference. You will always find some intervals, obviously, these are just building blocks. But the "Dies Irae" chant is often quoted in very specific and intentional ways, which isn't the same as coincidental similarities in intervals. I don't think the Rhapsody in Blue intentionally (or clearly recognizably) quotes the "Dies Irae".
You may be right about whether it is an intentional quote. But the intervals are very clearly recognizable, and repeated several times. Listen to the solo piano section in the middle, approximately 8:30 - 10:00. The phrase functions in the same way it functions in the Star Wars main theme, as a sort of descending response to the ascending call. I believe we should include both examples or neither, to be consistent.
I think STAR WARS is not listed there because of the "Main Theme" though, but rather because of the music when Luke sees the burned corpses of Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen,
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Isn't it also in binary sunset( I think that's the one I mean).
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Surprised no one's mentioned this but Chirs Young's new score for The Piper features it prominently.
It was mentioned a few posts up there on April 18th.
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Posted: |
May 5, 2024 - 5:13 AM
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By: |
fmfan1
(Member)
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In case nobody has already mentioned this one: George Gershwin - Rhapsody In Blue. I’m not sure all of the examples were intentional quotations, although they clearly use those intervals. It’s almost like foundational music grammar at this point.
Well, that's why I would not include a reference that isn't an "actual" reference. You will always find some intervals, obviously, these are just building blocks. But the "Dies Irae" chant is often quoted in very specific and intentional ways, which isn't the same as coincidental similarities in intervals. I don't think the Rhapsody in Blue intentionally (or clearly recognizably) quotes the "Dies Irae".
You may be right about whether it is an intentional quote. But the intervals are very clearly recognizable, and repeated several times. Listen to the solo piano section in the middle, approximately 8:30 - 10:00. The phrase functions in the same way it functions in the Star Wars main theme, as a sort of descending response to the ascending call. I believe we should include both examples or neither, to be consistent.
I think STAR WARS is not listed there because of the "Main Theme" though, but rather because of the music when Luke sees the burned corpses of Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen,
Yes, Star Wars is on the list because of the corpse scene, not the main title theme. Part of the challenge of adding to the list is not including examples where the 4 notes just happen to occur without the proper context. The emphasis that Gershwin puts on those 4 notes catches the attention, and if the piece had been titled something like "Devil's Dance," then it might be a good candidate. But as far as I know, there is no context suggesting death, danger, or impending doom.
I even had to scrutinize THE PIPER a bit (even though the context was super obvious) because the interval from the 3rd note to the 4th note is one-half step larger than usual. However, since the second phrase of the melody in THE PIPER mimics the shape of the second phrase of the Dies Irae tune, I can be more confident in concluding that it is a knowing reference.
I like the additional examples that have appeared recently!
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I just noticed the ancient Dies Irae tune in the music of the Nintendo Switch game "LUIGI'S MANSION 3" by Kazumi Totaka, where it is fittingly quoted in a fight against ghosts. (I don't have any clips at hand, I just noticed it playing the game, but can try to grab some and upload it later if of interest.)
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