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Wish he had kept with Nolan. The music, while it had some wonderful moments, was at times SO LOUD and so painful that it completely ripped me out of the story. He really shouldn't be doing this job if he has to always make the film about HIM, which is what I was thinking as I sat there in the theater wiping the blood out of my ears. He did the same thing in Blade Runner...music so loud it was the only thing one could possibly experience while it was playing...almost as if he didn't realize he was attempting to SUPPORT a film...not bury it. I am almost afraid to see No Time to Die.
Didn't find it too loud where I saw it. When I saw INTERSTELLAR, however (in Imax), I thought my eardrums weer about to explode when McConaughey leaves the farm. (What a terrible film, btw, but that's another story.)
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"As the film gets underway - majestic, epic, with a trumpeting score by Hans Zimmer that could have been written for elephant and alphorn..."
Whether critical or not, I appreciate that that reviewer addressed the reality of the score without being overly effusive.
The previously-shared NY Times article was another effusive puff-piece that makes love to Zimmer and the DUNE score, all while carrying the same old humble-bragging that Zimmer does in the reviews - a seemingly self-deprecating comment about being a rockstar that hides his attempt to describe himself as a rockstar (or punk star, depending on the film) when he just played keyboards for a couple pop bands like millions of other non-names did for a brief time in their 20s. And then he describes his working process which inevitably some form of creative isolation that paints a romanticized picture of a struggling artist: isolating himself in the deserts of Utah to absorb the feel of being in a desert...
And once again, the score does not live up to being the unanimous masterpiece that it is marketed as - I find its presence in the film mostly not annoying, generically fitting at quieter moments, and at times that same overly-epic loudness which is annoying. And tremendously wall-to-wall. Not a lot of breathing room in the film. But fortunately the cinematography lends the film some space to breathe.
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The music, while it had some wonderful moments, was at times SO LOUD and so painful that it completely ripped me out of the story. He really shouldn't be doing this job if he has to always make the film about HIM, which is what I was thinking as I sat there in the theater wiping the blood out of my ears.
I don't know about wiping blood out of one's ears, but I think you actually hit the nail on the head of why Zimmer can come across as quite annoying and how that mixes with the sometimes overbearing quality of his music that isn't just overbearing but is obnoxious. I realize that all the common tropes I see in puff-pieces about Zimmer or from Zimmer himself all come back to HIM and HIS experience, as if the film exists to serve HIS creative journey to being a musical artist. Whether it's isolating himself in the desert for DUNE, isolating himself with an organ for INTERSTELLAR, seeking the perfect clock for DUNKIRK, making the DARK KNIGHT score "punk" by scratching cello strings with razor blades... it goes beyond the realm of creativity into self-indulgence. I mentioned before that I think Zimmer would be a handful to work with and I think it's because of this kind of self-centered neediness he exudes. It's kind of hard to tell when you confuse it for a creative process, but I'm reminded of directors I have worked with who are similar and it's utterly obnoxious because their "vision" takes over EVERYTHING and EVERYONE in the production. I can see why some directors would like Zimmer, because they probably feed off of each others' self-importance - and if there's one thing those types of directors hate, it's crew members that do not feed that self-indulgence and try to push back.
Anyway, Zimmer can still produce decent stuff here and there but I have noticed these bad promotional habits being enabled A LOT since GLADIATOR. I think GLADIATOR kind of got to his head...
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Well, now I can say I've finally seen a Denis Villeneuve movie I didn't like - "Dune." I've enjoyed every one of his movies up until tonight, including "Enemy" and "Prisoners" (and I absolutely loved "Sicario," "Arrival," and "Blade Runner 2049"). Dune was fine for the first two thirds but I finally got tired of being aurally raped by Hans Zimmer's oppressive score (it didn't help that it was mixed "Christopher Nolan style," where it was so loud it drowned out much of the dialogue). I probably would have tolerated all of it better if I was actually invested in what was going on. Here I don't blame Villeneuve - I think it's simply that I'm not captivated by the source material. I remember being bored by previous versions of Dune and this one was no different. It's a built in prejudice - I find myself getting bored with any story that starts out with some kind of prophecy and a "Chosen One" type character. First of all, when they tell you the prophecy, they pretty much tell you the plot of the movie, and secondly, people in these types of movies tend to speak in pronouncements rather than any kind of relatable dialogue. That kind of plot also veers a bit too close to fantasy for my liking.
The performances were fine, I guess. It's hard to tell when I just don't care what happens to any of the characters. And the FX and hardware were impressive. But as I mentioned, that only sustained my interest for the first 100 minutes or so. After that I just kept waiting for it to be over.
I know I'll get crap for not liking Zimmer's score, but what can I say - I hated it. It was almost three hours of drones, wailing, and massively overdone percussion effects. It was totally predictable, totally overdone, and to make it worse, incessant. Zimmer has this tendency to score every moment of a film likes it's THE most important moment of the film, and that just gives him nowhere to go as the film progresses. As my wife said, if everything's important, then nothing is important. And it's SO F*****G LOUD to boot. Many times with Zimmer I don't know what he's trying to say with the music in any given scene. What's it adding to the narrative? What is it bringing in terms of intellectual or emotional subtext? The approach here to suspense and action is to just layer in gigantic percussion, drones and irritating wails (both human and electronic). It came to a head with Jason Momoa's big showdown toward the end of the movie where I just wanted the music to SHUT UP and let the scene breathe for a moment.
But enough about the score. Otherwise the sound mix was just terrific, with insane dynamics and incredible immersion (though overloaded with LFE - does every piece of machinery in the future just produce prodigious amounts of bass? I would think as technology progresses the tendency would be to make things quieter, lol.) There are a ton of scenes that I'm are going to become reference home theater demos, that's for sure.
The presentation was impressive at the Dolby Cinema here in Colorado Springs, so that's a plus (though don't expect much image pop - it's all shot dark and moody, even the big desert scenes).
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That’s a good take John, you make lots of really good points.
I think Zimmer being in his mode of “I’m going to lock myself away and meditate on the essence of what the score is” is overly cerebral and self-indulgent, resulting in stuff that simply echoes what is on screen instead of lifting it up or expanding it. He’s not doing anything the sound design and cinematography and editing and performances aren’t already doing, which just adds to the overkill and the sense that the film has no room to breathe. I also think the 2.5 hour runtime that has become standard is really killing films that should be 2 hours or slightly shorter. DUNE I also haven’t had much love for and think the story inherently is a bit constrained, but the presentation on film does look nice.
You also hit the nail on the head about how futuristic space ships all have these deep bass sub drops when you’d expect them to be silent. A couple sound mixers have decried this as usually being a studio demand because it’s a popular trend, partly due to bass drops in rap songs. I agree with them that it cheapens the work because sound design at its best is not dictated by popularity but by a very creative and artistic approach to creating sounds and balancing them all with each other (Gary Rydstrom’s work for TERMINATOR 2 and JURASSIC PARK and Ben Burtt’s work for STAR WARS represents some key pinnacles in filmic sound design).
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But then you missed the point completely about Dune since Paul is not the chosen one neither the messia. He is just a mentaly enhanced human being born from the Bene Gesserit who manipulate blood lines to creat a super being under their control. In the process, they go to plants to artificialy implant "prophecies" about messias who will come from other worlds to save the natives. Just another layer of control at the service of the great houses and the Bene Gesserits thenselves - just all religions by the way.
Much like what happens in The Matrix trilogy which was inspired by Dune.
About Zimmer and his "music" you just nailed it!
!!!
You're right - I DID miss the point about DUNE. Does all that phony Messiah stuff get revealed in the next installment? Now THAT I would find interesting! Or was it buried under layers of Zimmer in this one?
If that's coming in DUNE 2 I'll be one of the first to see it, since I LOVE deconstructing Messiah myths.
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Zimmer is clearly into sound design more than music, or certainly believes that music for film has to function as sound design. Which annoys we film purists no end.
Not true. I dig some pure sound design scores when they are done right.
Pandorum is one of them.
A lot of Goldenthal's cues for Alien 3, Demolition Man or Sphere are pure sound design and are great.
I ended up doing a "sound design" type score for HALCYON, initially against my will. But it actually became one of the best things I've done. I asked the director to let me bring in the orchestra at key moments and that combo worked like gangbusters, since the string section stood out from the rest of the score and had real impact (IMHO). There was about 5 minutes of pure orchestra vs. about 45 minutes of ambient material. I think ultimately it was the right approach.
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That’s a good take John, you make lots of really good points.
I think Zimmer being in his mode of “I’m going to lock myself away and meditate on the essence of what the score is” is overly cerebral and self-indulgent, resulting in stuff that simply echoes what is on screen instead of lifting it up or expanding it. He’s not doing anything the sound design and cinematography and editing and performances aren’t already doing, which just adds to the overkill and the sense that the film has no room to breathe. I also think the 2.5 hour runtime that has become standard is really killing films that should be 2 hours or slightly shorter. DUNE I also haven’t had much love for and think the story inherently is a bit constrained, but the presentation on film does look nice.
You also hit the nail on the head about how futuristic space ships all have these deep bass sub drops when you’d expect them to be silent. A couple sound mixers have decried this as usually being a studio demand because it’s a popular trend, partly due to bass drops in rap songs. I agree with them that it cheapens the work because sound design at its best is not dictated by popularity but by a very creative and artistic approach to creating sounds and balancing them all with each other (Gary Rydstrom’s work for TERMINATOR 2 and JURASSIC PARK and Ben Burtt’s work for STAR WARS represents some key pinnacles in filmic sound design).
"He’s not doing anything the sound design and cinematography and editing and performances aren’t already doing, which just adds to the overkill and the sense that the film has no room to breathe."
Yeah, echoing the "no room to breathe" argument once again. I felt like I had been aurally pummeled by the time the film was over.
I appreciate all your comments, though I would argue Zimmer's approach is more "impressionistic" than cerebral, almost like a new-agey "let me feel the film's aura" kind of thing. I'd have preferred a more cerebral approach, because then the music might have actually *said* something.
Gary Rydstrom is a genius. Burtt is too but I'm still furious with him over the Star Wars OT Atmos remixes, which bury Williams' scores so much you can barely hear them.  And agree - the bass drop thing has become the "orange and teal" of sound design.
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