 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
you would never see a blackbuster or jewbuster or muslimbuster. It's sad but Joan does have a good point.
Actually, you would, but Blackbusters would be done by black comedians (like Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle), turning it more into a "fearful white people" skit than a hate film.
Jewbusters? Maybe, maybe not. Jews have been used as punchlines for years, but in this context, it would probably be taken as a pro-Nazi sort of thing. My mother-in-law would hate it.
Muslimbusters? You'd see that before either of the other two...
Today in "comedy" pretty much anything goes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Without hopefully appearing to reiterate unnecessarily:
(a) The original video is not very original, nor very funny, nor very well executed BUT ... it was certainly not created by these actors in order to incite hatred ... merely to poke fun at the anti-gay stereotypes. Its intent was the OPPOSITE of that interpreted by so many here. No-one I know here in the UK would take offence... except to say it's not very good. That's an aesthetic, not an ethical consideration.
(b) Therefore, there shouldn't be a kneejerk reaction against it morally. The intent of the poster is something else: I can't judge that.
(c) In a free world, where gays were fully assimilated, it would be patronising to never criticise their behaviour, to always handle them like cut glass. In Britain, there was for some years a funny sketch show called 'Goodness Gracious Me' which was written by, performed by and conceived by British Asians. It went down very well with the Indian/Pakistani audiences, and mercilessly satirised all sorts of Asian stances and attitudes. The difference was that it was ASIANS THEMSELVES doing the self-parody.
Until gays learn to laugh at themselves, just as Jackie Mason told Jewish jokes, there'll be no real sense of 'equality'. So why don't you guys write a self-parody gay skitshow of your own? There's plenty of material.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ooooh, sorry, that I accidentially hit the l button twice. I guess you never make mistakes, do you?
No, I don't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Real-life 'gaybusting'" in Iraq:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/24/gay.iraqis/index.html
I wonder how many gays (from Iraq or anywhere else) find the video "clever satire" (satire of what? As far as I can determine, it's merely a parody of Ghostbusters, not a satire, and doesn't have anything to actually say, but perhaps I missed it...)...
What has that to do with the video? Inept the video may be, but the idea that the intent is to incite hatred is just silly. Since when were parody and satire mutual exclusives?
Now, as regards the link re Iraq, you've missed quite a lot, actually.
Firstly, the chap interviewed was RAPED by the gunmen. Heterosexual men do not rape other men. You have here a crime perpetrated against a gay BY gays, whatever their own delusions about their orientations may be. So it's hardly relevant.
Secondly, without entering into the politics of it all, these killings are described as having been perpetrated in the context of invading Western values 'corrupting' Iraq, wrongly or rightly. That is a totally loaded context and not comparable. You might as well say that Nazism proves that oven design is dangerous to mankind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Real-life 'gaybusting'" in Iraq:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/24/gay.iraqis/index.html
I wonder how many gays (from Iraq or anywhere else) find the video "clever satire" (satire of what? As far as I can determine, it's merely a parody of Ghostbusters, not a satire, and doesn't have anything to actually say, but perhaps I missed it...)...
Yup, he said it Blondie-Wan..."Heterosexual men do not rape other men". (and there was a period after it.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Now, as regards the link re Iraq, you've missed quite a lot, actually.
Firstly, the chap interviewed was RAPED by the gunmen. Heterosexual men do not rape other men. You have here a crime perpetrated against a gay BY gays, whatever their own delusions about their orientations may be. So it's hardly relevant.
Sorry, but that's a generalization that isn't necessarily true. If you're suggesting that only homosexuals rape homosexuals, that's short-sighted. Do you believe that only homosexuals rape other homosexuals in prison? How 'bout those country boys in Deliverance (which was a representation of real situations that happen)? Do you think they had some Streisand records in their collection? Hardly.
Raping a homosexual doesn't always have something to do with the rapist's sexuality as it does with humiliating and assaulting a homosexual. It's power and control and abuse. Similar to the fact that pedophiles who rape little boys are not necessarily homosexual (and usually aren't). Your view strikes me as narrow and typical of someone who doesn't grasp the full true picture of the subject.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Jul 24, 2008 - 12:11 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Joe E.
(Member)
|
What has that to do with the video? Inept the video may be, but the idea that the intent is to incite hatred is just silly. Since when were parody and satire mutual exclusives?
Now, as regards the link re Iraq, you've missed quite a lot, actually.
Firstly, the chap interviewed was RAPED by the gunmen. Heterosexual men do not rape other men. You have here a crime perpetrated against a gay BY gays, whatever their own delusions about their orientations may be. So it's hardly relevant.
Secondly, without entering into the politics of it all, these killings are described as having been perpetrated in the context of invading Western values 'corrupting' Iraq, wrongly or rightly. That is a totally loaded context and not comparable. You might as well say that Nazism proves that oven design is dangerous to mankind.
All I was saying was that I didn't think the original video was terribly funny.
Re: the rapes in Iraq, the rapes aren't perpetrated by everyone who would kill or harm gays there; moreover, given the differences in how homosexuality itself is conceptualized across cultures, I don't know that the rapists would recognize themselves as gay (whether they are or aren't).
My point was simply that targeting gays for some sort of "removal" from society is hardly a laughing matter, whatever the intentions of the video's makers may be. To be clear, I absolutely don't think its purpose was to incite hatred (or anything else beyond laughter); at most, it was to exploit existing hatred (or unease, or simple ignorance) for laughs. While I might find that obnoxious or offensive, I don't think it should be prohibited, but I do think it's more than fair game for criticism.
As for the story in Iraq, that's something I came across this morning that reminded me of the video, as it involves intolerance for gays leading to forcible removal or displacement of them from society and/or humiliating treatment of them. The video is totally silly and clearly does not depict reality, but it appeared to me some of the underlying attitudes and assumptions behind its making were not terribly far from the attitudes portrayed in the news story, and I was wondering what First Breath might have to say about the treatment of gays in Iraq as reported in that story.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Jul 24, 2008 - 12:36 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
TominAtl
(Member)
|
"Real-life 'gaybusting'" in Iraq:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/24/gay.iraqis/index.html
I wonder how many gays (from Iraq or anywhere else) find the video "clever satire" (satire of what? As far as I can determine, it's merely a parody of Ghostbusters, not a satire, and doesn't have anything to actually say, but perhaps I missed it...)...
What has that to do with the video? Inept the video may be, but the idea that the intent is to incite hatred is just silly. Since when were parody and satire mutual exclusives?
Now, as regards the link re Iraq, you've missed quite a lot, actually.
Firstly, the chap interviewed was RAPED by the gunmen. Heterosexual men do not rape other men. You have here a crime perpetrated against a gay BY gays, whatever their own delusions about their orientations may be. So it's hardly relevant.
Secondly, without entering into the politics of it all, these killings are described as having been perpetrated in the context of invading Western values 'corrupting' Iraq, wrongly or rightly. That is a totally loaded context and not comparable. You might as well say that Nazism proves that oven design is dangerous to mankind.
William, I know that you know that rape is NOT an act of sexual fulfillment and longing. It is an of violence, whether it be against women or men. The sexual part is fueled by the feeling power over the one deemed helpless. To dismiss this gay on gay violence is bizarre and unfounded arguement. But what does it matter if they were gay? In addition, the viewpoint of homosexuality being viewed as something Western is only a part of the increase in violence, as stated in the article. In fact, it just added to fuel to the fire already in place, giving more legitamacy to perpetuate violence on those already viewed as weak, unmanly and shameful.
You come across as if you find it unfathomable that violence can against gay men and women as much as it does, whether it'd be beatings or rapes or shootings. I am glad to see you as being tolerant and accepting as such, but your views on how we do or should perceive or take criticism, satire or jokes is a bit naive but coming from someone whom I presume to be a heterosexual male it's understandable.
Our reasons for being fearful of "coming out" to family, friends, co-workers, etc. has to with this very fact: fear of rejection, ridicule, scorn and yes, violence. It is fortunate that most of us do not experience the violence part here in the US, but it happens quite frequently. Years ago a gay friend of mine had been beaten by 2 boys with a baseball bat while walking home by himself carrying a take-out pizza. 2 witnesses heard them taunting him first, calling him "c*sucker", "faggot", and other fine names. I guess it didn't help him that he was wearing a t-shirt that had the rainbow flag on his breast pocket. He lived by the way. So when I see a satiric video showing straight guys being called in by the fearful public to come and zap some gay guys, I'm sorry but I don't find it funny.
Yes, I for the most part agree with you: this dumb video was probably made in the spirit of satire. But if the recent cover of the prestigous "New Yorker" can cause such an uproar over what really was a satiric message, what difference if any can be expected by this clumsy video of straight men zapping gay men? And the audience to whom it was intended probably didn't catch it.
And yes, we do make fun of ourselves. The American sitcom "Will and Grace" was a perfect example of how screwed up and silly many of us can be.
The purpose of Blondie's post that is that as innocuous to you and to others that the video may be, until we are actually, as you wrote earlier, assimilated in society(without the fear, hatred, scorn, ridicule, and violence), videos like that can and will strike a raw nerve, and for good reason.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
