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P.S.: Who also hears the reference to "Underneath the Mango Tree" in "Holiday Source Cue 1"?
Yeah definetly,
though I was thinking more Jamaica Farewell.
I noticed you never included the song in your LP presentation? I would have thought the commercial version by Wilma Reading would have been included on any potential soundtrack released at the time. 
But I did! Play it again with Wilma (single version) is the opening track on side 1, of course.
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P.S.: Who also hears the reference to "Underneath the Mango Tree" in "Holiday Source Cue 1"?
Actually, I think it bears a resemblance to the second part of Barry's "Bond Meets Domino" from THUNDEBALL. More Bahamas than Jamaica.
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The speed difference between the main title on the film and the CD is about 5 seconds as far as I can tell, which is approximately the same difference you'd get comparing a PAL video to a film copy.
I wonder if this indicates the source of the main title was a PAL format video.
Either it was mastered from a PAL video release, or maybe the CD producers intentionally mastered it at a higher speed after watching the film (mistakenly using the PAL source as a reference for the "correct" speed).
In any case, it ruins it for me since it's in the wrong damn key!
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The speed difference between the main title on the film and the CD is about 5 seconds as far as I can tell, which is approximately the same difference you'd get comparing a PAL video to a film copy.
I wonder if this indicates the source of the main title was a PAL format video.
It's not a speed difference most people would notice and indeed I hadn't noticed it till pointed out.
Ergo, whilst not ideal, not a deal breaker.
Cheers
Is it just this one track that has the PAL speedup/pitch shift?
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Is it just this one track that has the PAL speedup/pitch shift?
Yes, it's the only one.
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I like this score a lot but as others said before, the sequencing of the album is completely failed. Not only the endless and boring repetition of the suspense track but also the one of the main theme at the beginning, etc. This is beyond my understanding. Fortunately, the music itself is fascinating. Vintage Barry.
Main theme at the beginning? Yeah, what idiot does that? 
Look, the score is presented in film sequence, apart from moving the source cues to the end.
That's what most fans want.
If it was not in film order, or if tracks were missed off to avoid repetition, people would moan about that instead.
All opinions are valid, but the labels can't please everybody.
But, you know, we live in the digital age. Rather than everybody complaining that the score is not presented in their preferred order, we can all program our own sequence and leave the repetitive tracks out if we want to.
Cheers
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Look, the score is presented in film sequence, apart from moving the source cues to the end.
That's what most fans want.
Really?
Speak for yourself as I wouldn't be too sure about what 'most' fans really want.
This particular Barry score works extremely well within the film (as lots of his music does).
But The Tamarind Seed score is repetitious in excess on the album as sequenced as it is now.
As a pure listening experience, I think it doesn't work as well as it could have been when programmed differently.
In the digital age you could still have the option to sequence it in film order -- that's how some other releases were done in the past (they'd give that info in the booklet).
It's just a very difficult score to release in the best way possible from a musically satifactory point of view. And that goal has clearly not been achieved in this case. It's not even complete. And if it was you'd have an even greater problem because of so many, many, many, many, many repetitious tracks.
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Look, the score is presented in film sequence, apart from moving the source cues to the end.
That's what most fans want.
Really?
Yes, really.
Look why don't you sell your copy of the CD and just stick to albums you don't want to complain about?
I'd hate for your life to be so horribly blighted by owning a CD you so clearly hate.
Cheers
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I have to wonder if the same kind of criticism would happen if the release had the names of John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith on the cover. I keep repeating myself, but we have been waiting for decades for this release to happen and it wasn't an easy one to do considering the available source material.
The guy who mastered this is one of the best people currently available in the business - he preserved Matt Monro's entire catalog in the best possible sound quality for future generations. There have been soundtrack releases with serious sonic problems in the past, but to my surprise I read little or nothing about their problems on this board. I don't know why people keep criticizing this particular release which by the way also sold for standard retail price while all the other labels now charge premium price.
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Contrary to what some people might believe, I'm not emotional about this particular release. I think it's a missed opportunity. That's all. 'Hate' is a strong word that just doesn't fit here. I like most of John Barry's music, but I'm not blind and deaf to things I find bothersome.
But do we see members of a John Barry cult here trying to downplay obvious issues with a release and lamenting any criticism of their revered object?
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I think you guys have gotta understand that if a cd company messes with the order too much, people moan.
Somebody somewhere always.. isnt happy.
Most of the time the film order is the safest sequence for cd producers.
Tamarind is a slightly unusual case in which the tension theme plays over several sequences in the movie together But if they had chucked a source cue in to break it up, plenty on here would be saying "my entire month is ruined, that track doesnt appear there in the movie" etc etc.
So they cant win.
Personally im more grateful for the quality of the remastered music and the price than i am the order of the music. But thats just me.
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Tamarind is a slightly unusual case in which the tension theme plays over several sequences in the movie together But if they had chucked a source cue in to break it up, plenty on here would be saying "my entire month is ruined, that track doesnt appear there in the movie" etc etc.
The Chase has been broken up by source music, and that was the right choice to do for the album.
But the source material in Tamarind Seed is musically not half that interesting compared to those on the Chase recording. That's another point to consider. So, it's a really difficult task to present the score in the best possible way.
The way the track sequence is now, in chronological order with the bonus section at the end, the whole thing just sounds less satisfying. It is rather an uninspired stringing together of pieces which often lack the form of a proper beginning and end.
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Send it back then.
Or give it to me if you hate it. Lol
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Okay. Hands-up. I got impatient with the complaints about this release yesterday.
My replies were perhaps a bit hot headed.
I've cooled down since and I concur that, given the repetitive nature of the Tamarind Seed score, certainly when the tension theme takes over, it may have been a good move to assemble the CD similarly to The Chase, i.e. mix up source cues and score cues to avoid the listening experience getting repetitive.
And there's nothing wrong with pointing out you think it could have been sequenced for a better listening experience.
That saiid, for every person who likes the idea of that, there's going to be someone else who doesn't.
Bill is right, you can't please everybody, and I'm just so grateful this could come out at all that I don't feel inclined to complain that there's a repetitive section of the score.
So, sorry, I apologise, but please join me in being grateful this came out even if you feel the sequencing could have been better.
Cheers
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No need to apologise, Stephen. At least not to me.
But I'm glad you've balanced it back a bit.
It's certainly a great thing to have the official release after almost 50 years.
As I don't collect any new releases (be it physical or digital) for years now, I don't own this CD. But I have to say I found it really tempting to make an exception for this one because I like the suspense-action music in that film very much.
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Posted: |
Jan 24, 2022 - 6:41 AM
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By: |
MusicMad
(Member)
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No need to apologise, ...It's certainly a great thing to have the official release after almost 50 years...I don't own this CD....
I rip all of my CDs and occasionally re-sequence them. Had this release of The Tamarind Seed not been in film order then there is no doubt I would have re-sequenced it so that it runs properly.
The release is not perfect ... less than stellar sound being the major problem ... but I've many far worse sounding scores and it is what it is. I have no problem with the repetitive theme ... it works brilliantly in the film and it is so catchy that it becomes addictive.
Prior to the Internet becoming universal, I bought (Jul 01) a release of this score from a well-known retailer, unaware of the CD's source. I was disappointed to find it was an unofficial release but it contained the music I wanted: the glorious main theme and that addictive tension theme. I already owned the film on DVD (Mar 00) so I took the time to rip the music, with much dialogue, so that I had a second copy. I've played both copies so many times over the 20 years that I know the music very well.
I've since replaced the earlier DVD with the BluRay (Feb 15) which has an isolated music track which I've played a couple of times,
The thought of having that fabulous tension theme broken by source music cues is one I don't wish to contemplate ... I know the breaks between File 23 and Defection and ... etc. are natural because that's just how they are in the film. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Incidentally, I found the old boot release carried many of the same tracks as on this Silva release - I've now deleted it from my music library (I've still retained my DVD rip copy as this provides a different listening experience).
The alternate cues (even a different lyric which I'm pleased they didn't use) are a bonus which I'm very happy to have.
As Stephen suggests: it's impossible for the score's producers to please everyone ... for me, on this occasion, they made the right choice - 100%
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