Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2017 - 7:51 AM   
 By:   Joe Caps   (Member)

Sadly, we do NOT get to hear the original Main title on the dvd.
UA had the complete film in stereo except for reel one.
For the Main title, they duped the stereo Main title from the LP and dubbed it into the film.
You can hear the difference because part of it is reused in either the Intermission Music or the exit Musc(can't remember which).
The record uses around a 25-30 piece orchestra and about ten voices - the actual soundtrack uses 50 - 60 orchestra and thirty voices.
It makes a big difference.



Does that mean that the Overture is also from the LP?


No - Overture was on a separate reel.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2017 - 11:03 AM   
 By:   Panavision70   (Member)

Just bought the soundtrack CD off ebay. Why is Fred Steiner credited for two selections, "The Chase" and "Which Way Did They Go?"

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2017 - 1:12 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Just bought the soundtrack CD off ebay. Why is Fred Steiner credited for two selections, "The Chase" and "Which Way Did They Go?"


The LP says that those two tracks were "Adapted by Fred Steiner." That could mean that the selections contain music composed by someone other than Bernstein, or music that is in the public domain, that was adapted by Steiner for use in the film. But since no other composers or music titles are mentioned, that probably is not it.

Since Leo Shuken and Jack Hayes are credited for the orchestrations for the album overall, the nod to Fred Steiner for those two tracks most likely indicates that he had a hand in the orchestrations for those selections only.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2017 - 1:16 PM   
 By:   James MacMillan   (Member)

Bob is correct : in one of the interviews Bernstein did on David Raksin's radio programme "The Subject is Film Music", he mentions that Fred Steiner helped out on the orchestrations for this film and also on The Great Escape.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2017 - 3:49 AM   
 By:   CK   (Member)

Since I'm currently listening to it, here's a point of the finger at this very enjoyable performance from the Elmer Bernstein set James F. did a number of years ago:

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2017 - 10:31 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Since I'm currently listening to it, here's a point of the finger at this very enjoyable performance from the Elmer Bernstein set James F. did a number of years ago:


Thanks! Makes me wish James had done the whole thing (including ALL those choral pieces) before he closed shop.

 
 Posted:   Feb 12, 2021 - 5:26 PM   
 By:   GreatGonzo   (Member)

The movie is currently free on Amazon Prime in a super lovely new HD transfer that will make you chuck the horrible old Olive Films blu-ray in the bin. Even the aspect ratio appears to be correct. Enjoy!

 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2021 - 5:05 AM   
 By:   Bill Carson, Earl of Poncey   (Member)

Recorded this film last week. Remember my dad being in fits of laughter at it when we watched it on b&w tv in the 70s. Will try a viewing one night this week.

I remember a mad sand storm where all the various groups - miners, indians, temperance women, soldiers - just keep missing each other.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2021 - 6:03 AM   
 By:   Zooba   (Member)

Even thought it's not perfect, there is something really nice and special seeing and hearing these young men and women celebrating and performing Elmer Bernstein's great music! Bravo to them all and the orchestra and conductor.

Enjoy!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2021 - 6:19 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

Bravo to them all and the orchestra and conductor.


zooba's preaching to the choir. smile

Would've prefered to have Elmer's God's Little Acre performed instead, speaking for myself.
Wonder how many years remain before the word 'hallelujah' is forbidden to be intoned in public. wink

Is this joan hue conducting?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2021 - 7:46 AM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

Is this joan hue conducting?

No, but I wish I was conducting this.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2024 - 9:59 AM   
 By:   James MacMillan   (Member)

http://www.starbeams.com/erniesheldon.htm

James, you are right. Not much on the Internet about Ernie. You've probably already read the information in the above URL; it contained the most information I could find. I didn't know he wrote the lyrics for The Hallelujah Trail until your post. Most of the information I could find mainly listed his writing for Baby The Rain Must Fall. I noted the above said he composed the TV theme for Here Comes The Brides which is a song I always liked.

I couldn't find out if he is still living. I don't know if any of us will be able to answer your questions, but I'll keep playing Sherlock and snoop around.

Love, love, love Bernstein's themes in this soundtrack.


Bump. Sad to report that the lyricist Ernie Sheldon passed away in September of 2023 at the age of 93. I discovered an obituary on Legacy.com by googling his name Ernest Sheldon ("Ernie") Lieberman.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2024 - 7:27 PM   
 By:   JEC   (Member)


Sadly, we do NOT get to hear the original Main title on the dvd.
UA had the complete film in stereo except for reel one.
For the Main title, they duped the stereo Mian title from the LP nd dubbed it into the film.
You can hear the difference because part of it is reused in either the Intermission Music or the exit Musc(can't remember which).
The record uses around a 25-30 piece orchestra and about ten voices - the actual soundtrack uses 50 - 60 orchestra and thirty voices.
It makes a big difference.


I thought the VHS of this *had* the original Main Title and that reel one was missing by the time the DVD was released. Maybe my ears were playing tricks but I remember thinking how anemic the Main Title sounded while watching the DVD versus what I remember hearing years earlier watching it on VHS.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2024 - 1:12 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)


Sadly, we do NOT get to hear the original Main title on the dvd.
UA had the complete film in stereo except for reel one.
For the Main title, they duped the stereo Mian title from the LP nd dubbed it into the film.
You can hear the difference because part of it is reused in either the Intermission Music or the exit Musc(can't remember which).
The record uses around a 25-30 piece orchestra and about ten voices - the actual soundtrack uses 50 - 60 orchestra and thirty voices.
It makes a big difference.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought the VHS of this *had* the original Main Title and that reel one was missing by the time the DVD was released. Maybe my ears were playing tricks but I remember thinking how anemic the Main Title sounded while watching the DVD versus what I remember hearing years earlier watching it on VHS.



The VHS was first released in 1991, along with the laserdisc of the film. If it's true that those versions had the original main title, surely it would have been better to dub the main title for the DVD from the digital sound on the laserdisc rather than the analog tape master of the re-recorded score album.

On the DVD, is the non-main title music in reel one in mono sound? Or did they "enhance" it for stereo in order to match the rest of the film?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2024 - 7:10 AM   
 By:   Ralph   (Member)

The Blu-ray was released in December, 2022.

https://www.amazon.com/Hallelujah-Trail-Special-John-Sturges/dp/B0BHTRXNLV

Cinema Retro has a lengthy piece on it.
https://cinemaretro.com/index.php?/archives/12054-REVIEW-JOHN-STURGES-THE-HALLELUJAH-TRAIL-1965-STARRING-BURT-LANCASTER-LEE-REMICK;-KINO-LORBER-BLU-RAY-EDITION.html

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2024 - 10:42 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

The Blu-ray was released in December, 2022.

https://www.amazon.com/Hallelujah-Trail-Special-John-Sturges/dp/B0BHTRXNLV

Cinema Retro has a lengthy piece on it.
https://cinemaretro.com/index.php?/archives/12054-REVIEW-JOHN-STURGES-THE-HALLELUJAH-TRAIL-1965-STARRING-BURT-LANCASTER-LEE-REMICK;-KINO-LORBER-BLU-RAY-EDITION.html



Well, that seems to be the definitive word on the subject. According to Paul Scrabo, the author of that Cinema Retro article, the reel-one mono sound was discovered during the preparation of the 1991 laserdisc and VHS releases. It was Scrabo that lent the laserdisc producers his copy of the soundtrack LP for dubbing of the main title into the video master. So, those initial 1991 video releases did NOT have the original main title.

I still wonder why they used an LP for dubbing, rather than go retrieve the album master tape, which should also have been in the MGM/UA vault.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2024 - 1:51 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

After listening to the James Sedares and Nic Raine medleys posted earlier in this thread, and their choral work, I had to post Bernstein's work on the score LP. And ask two questions:

(1) Why doesn't anyone know how to mix a chorus and orchestra together anymore? The chorus in the Bernstein recording is upfront, while in the other recordings the chorus sounds like it is behind the orchestra. That may have been where it was positioned in the recording studio, but it need not sound that way on record. It's possible that the chorus on the Bernstein recording is actually mixed in mono into the stereo orchestra, thus making it seem even more forward.

(2) What happened to the art of enunciation of words in a song? In the Bernstein recording, the chorus is crisp and you can clearly hear every word, while the Sedares and Raine choruses are a bit mushy in their enunciation. Of course, the ability to discern the words is helped by the forward nature of the chorus, as discussed above. And it's possible that the Bernstein chorus was smaller than those used by Sedares or Raine, making it easier for the vocalists to combine their voices with precision. Bigger isn't always better when it comes to a chorus on a recording. What you lose in volume, you gain in understandability. And you can make up for much of the volume in the microphone placement, the engineering, and the mix.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2024 - 2:37 PM   
 By:   podres185   (Member)

After listening to the James Sedares and Nic Raine medleys posted earlier in this thread, and their choral work, I had to post Bernstein's work on the score LP. And ask two questions:

(1) Why doesn't anyone know how to mix a chorus and orchestra together anymore? The chorus in the Bernstein recording is upfront, while in the other recordings the chorus sounds like it is behind the orchestra. That may have been where it was positioned in the recording studio, but it need not sound that way on record. It's possible that the chorus on the Bernstein recording is actually mixed in mono into the stereo orchestra, thus making it seem even more forward.

(2) What happened to the art of enunciation of words in a song? In the Bernstein recording, the chorus is crisp and you can clearly hear every word, while the Sedares and Raine choruses are a bit mushy in their enunciation. Of course, the ability to discern the words is helped by the forward nature of the chorus, as discussed above. And it's possible that the Bernstein chorus was smaller than those used by Sedares or Raine, making it easier for the vocalists to combine their voices with precision. Bigger isn't always better when it comes to a chorus on a recording. What you lose in volume, you gain in understandability. And you can make up for much of the volume in the microphone placement, the engineering, and the mix.


And was anyone else a bit bothered by the chorus' rather formal pronunciation of "hallelujah" -- a long 'ahh' as opposed to a more 'western' or short 'a' sound ? Not sure if it was in the Sedares or the Raine version, though I'd be surprised if if was the former.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2024 - 3:32 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

And was anyone else a bit bothered by the chorus' rather formal pronunciation of "hallelujah" -- a long 'ahh' as opposed to a more 'western' or short 'a' sound ? Not sure if it was in the Sedares or the Raine version, though I'd be surprised if if was the former.


If I understand you correctly, it seems that on the Sedares recording, the chorus says Hall-le-lu-jah and on the Bernstein it's Hal-le-lu-jah. "Hall," as is town hall vs. "Hal," as in Hal Holbrook. But the extra "l" is in the word, so which pronunciation is correct?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2024 - 4:28 PM   
 By:   podres185   (Member)

And was anyone else a bit bothered by the chorus' rather formal pronunciation of "hallelujah" -- a long 'ahh' as opposed to a more 'western' or short 'a' sound ? Not sure if it was in the Sedares or the Raine version, though I'd be surprised if if was the former.


If I understand you correctly, it seems that on the Sedares recording, the chorus says Hall-le-lu-jah and on the Bernstein it's Hal-le-lu-jah. "Hall," as is town hall vs. "Hal," as in Hal Holbrook. But the extra "l" is in the word, so which pronunciation is correct?

Yes ... kinda like singing "alleluia" instead of "hallelujah." It's still quite lovely, but sorta like listening to John Wayne doing a British accent!

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2024 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.
Website maintained and powered by Veraprise and Matrimont.