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 Posted:   Jul 16, 2014 - 8:42 PM   
 By:   Zooba   (Member)

Goldsmith pretty much gets credit for it in his score, but does anyone know who actually wrote this Spiritual? I love how the maestro totally incorporates it into is superb score. I will always love Sidney Poitier, the movie and the score!

Wonder why the soundtrack LP never said "Amen" adapted by Jerry Goldsmith?

Here's a fun 45 version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzFt78N0heQ

 
 Posted:   Jul 16, 2014 - 10:56 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Goldsmith pretty much gets credit for it in his score, but does anyone know who actually wrote this Spiritual? I love how the maestro totally incorporates it into is superb score. I will always love Sidney Poitier, the movie and the score!

Wonder why the soundtrack LP never said "Amen" adapted by Jerry Goldsmith?

Here's a fun 45 version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzFt78N0heQ


Words and music by Jester Hairston, who also sang it in the film.

http://www.akh.se/lyrics/amen.htm

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 17, 2014 - 12:27 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Goldsmith pretty much gets credit for it in his score, but does anyone know who actually wrote this Spiritual? I love how the maestro totally incorporates it into is superb score. I will always love Sidney Poitier, the movie and the score!

Wonder why the soundtrack LP never said "Amen" adapted by Jerry Goldsmith?

Here's a fun 45 version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzFt78N0heQ


Words and music by Jester Hairston, who also sang it in the film.

He was also a choral director on dozens of films from THE LOST HORIZON to LAND OF THE PHARAOHS.

And a memorable actor as Brock Peter's father in TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, the butler in IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT and singing "The Begat" in FINIAN'S RAINBOW.

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2014 - 8:19 AM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Goldsmith pretty much gets credit for it in his score, but does anyone know who actually wrote this Spiritual? I love how the maestro totally incorporates it into is superb score. I will always love Sidney Poitier, the movie and the score!

Wonder why the soundtrack LP never said "Amen" adapted by Jerry Goldsmith?

Here's a fun 45 version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzFt78N0heQ

Words and music by Jester Hairston, who also sang it in the film.

He was also a choral director on dozens of films from THE LOST HORIZON to LAND OF THE PHARAOHS.

And a memorable actor as Brock Peter's father in TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, the butler in IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT and singing "The Begat" in FINIAN'S RAINBOW.


If I recall correctly, the original Epic LP credited Hairston for "Amen" on the back cover, but only as "Vocalist." Would he not have to be given composer credit for the song if that LP were being released today?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2014 - 8:52 AM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4cFccKPrYk

I just have to slip in my favorite cue from this soundtrack. The things Goldsmith could do with the "AMEN" song were amazing. My favorite is at the 22.29 time where he combines his own theme with the "AMEN" theme. Sadly, it only lasts for about 40 seconds but those are grand seconds.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2014 - 9:04 AM   
 By:   jpteacher568   (Member)

Let's all give Jester Hairston his due. He also did the spirituals for THE FOXES OF HARROW which can be heard on the soundtrack with music by David Buttolph and Alfred Newman. (http://www1.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm?ID=4224)

http://youtu.be/37nQRpAhDjM

http://www.umass.edu/chronicle/archives/00/01-28/Hairston18.html

http://www.jesterhairston.org/

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2014 - 2:31 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

As you can infer from Morricone's post, Hairston was a long-time close associate of Dimitri Tiomkin. There is an extensive conversation with Hairston at the Tiomkin website. If memory serves, he also did some work with the vocal group, The Voices of Walter Schumann. Whenever I read or saw him interviewed, he always revealed himself to be a very spiritual man with a beautiful outlook on living, not unike the late Eubie Blake.

I don't have the LP handy, but I recall that, one way or another, I was always aware that Hairston was the "Amen" author. I, too, have always loved the film and the score from the first time I saw it in the theater, and (forgive me for mentioning this again) lest we forget, this was the very first Goldsmith soundtrack album. I treasure the memory of getting to shake Mr. Poitier's hand a few years ago and telling him how much the movie meant to me and, I dare say, the whole country back in those days.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2014 - 2:40 PM   
 By:   Zooba   (Member)

Let's all give Jester Hairston his due. He also did the spirituals for THE FOXES OF HARROW which can be heard on the soundtrack with music by David Buttolph and Alfred Newman. (http://www1.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm?ID=4224)

http://youtu.be/37nQRpAhDjM

http://www.umass.edu/chronicle/archives/00/01-28/Hairston18.html

http://www.jesterhairston.org/


The umass article made an error by listing LILIES OF THE VALLEY as one of his credits.

 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2023 - 10:30 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Isn't it that Jester Hairston composed the song and was the vocalist in the movie, but Jerry Goldsmith arranged the song for the movie? The arrangement sounds 100% Goldsmith. Just wondering, because I've actually seen it credited recently the other way around (Goldsmith as composer, Hairston as arranger), which makes no sense to me.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2023 - 11:30 AM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

Hairston was probably under contact to Epic Records, which explains why the soundtrack album was released on that label, resulting in Goldsmith's first score on a full disc (ironically, Epic at that time was owned by Goldsmith's old employer C.B.S.).

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2023 - 12:43 PM   
 By:   Steven Lloyd   (Member)

Jester Hairston did not compose "Amen," which before the 1960s appeared in different African-American church hymnals as "Amen" (Trad.). Although I attended such a church as a child, I never heard that song before seeing the film.

What's likely is that Hairston ad-libbed certain lines for the pre-record, to seem convincing as what Poitier's character would already know to sing for the nuns. But Hairston definitely could not have been the composer.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2023 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Jester Hairston did not compose "Amen," which before the 1960s appeared in different African-American church hymnals as "Amen" (Trad.). Although I attended such a church as a child, I never heard that song before seeing the film.

What's likely is that Hairston ad-libbed certain lines for the pre-record, to seem convincing as what Poitier's character would already know to sing for the nuns. But Hairston definitely could not have been the composer.



Wikipedia is somewhat inconsistent on the subject. The article on Jester Hairston says in its first paragraph that "His notable compositions include "Amen," a gospel-tinged theme from the film Lilies of the Field." But later, the article says that "He also arranged the song "Amen", which he dubbed for the Sidney Poitier film Lilies of the Field,.."

The Wikipedia article on "Amen" states that "'Amen' is a traditional gospel song..." "The song was arranged by Jester Hairston, for the Sidney Poitier film Lilies of the Field."

Recordings of "Amen" go back at least to June 1948, when it was recorded by "the Wings Over Jordan Choir."

That first Wikipedia mention aside, it would appear that Steven Lloyd is correct. Since the song is generally considered to be "traditional," apparently Epic Records didn't feel the need on their LP to "de-credit" Goldsmith with the appellation "(trad.)" in its track list, or to credit Hairston with the arrangement. He is credited only as "vocalist." I wonder what the cue sheets would show.

 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2023 - 3:31 PM   
 By:   Gold Digger   (Member)

https://www.umcdiscipleship.org/articles/history-of-hymns-amen-amen-see-the-baby

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2023 - 4:15 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

https://www.umcdiscipleship.org/articles/history-of-hymns-amen-amen-see-the-baby


I have to say, the link above just confuses me more. First it says that "Hairston published the choral arrangement “Amen” (© 1957) with Schumann Music Corporation, which lists him as the composer."

Then, it states that the Wings Over Jordan "choir recorded the song at least four times ... the earliest being June 9, 1948, on RCA Victor (20-3242) with soloist Gerald L. Hutton." " The 1948 recording is of Hairston’s version, though he is not credited."

So, how did the WOJ choir record a song in 1948 that Hairston didn't publish until 1957? If WOJ recorded an unpublished work by Hairston, when did Hairston compose the tune?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2023 - 9:32 PM   
 By:   RonBurbella   (Member)

All of this musicological research for "AMEN" from LILIES OF THE FIELD is quite interesting and I do appreciate everyone's efforts. However, I have some information from my sheet music collection that may help settle the question.

(1) The larger-size "THEME FROM LILIES OF THE FIELD (Amen) by Jerry Goldsmith" (copyright 1963 by Unart Music Corporation) gives no lyrics with the music notes nor any lyric information.

(2) The smaller-size "AMEN (Theme From Lilies of the Field) by Jerry Goldsmith" (copyright 1963 by Unart Music Corporation) also has no lyrics with the music notes.
BUT...Surprise!....on the back page...there they are: Lyrics by Diane Lampert.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN
ALL HAIL A NEW MESSIAH NEW STAR IN THE HEAVEN
WALKIN' ON THE WATER TALKIN' ON THE MOUNTAIN
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN
JESUS HE BLESS SINNERS HE FORGIVE THE SINNERS
PETER IS IN THE PASTURE WITH THE KEY TO HEAVEN
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN

Diane Charlotte Lampert passed away in 2013 at the age of 88. She was an African-American songwriter who was credited with providing lyrics for the title songs for 20 films. However, other than the back sheet of the vocal sheet music version, I cannot find a credit for her in the Lilies of the Field IMDB "Full Cast and Crew" listing. They do give Jester Hairston credit for "music arranger: vocal arrangements" there, but there is nothing there for Diane Lampert. Perhaps this omission needs to be corrected?

Amen?
Ron Burbella

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2023 - 10:35 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

The Wings Over Jordan Choir version from 1953 can be heard here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE6mVmtwaTQ

Obviously, the "Amens" were not lyrics supplied by Diane Lampert. It's the phrases in between that are unique to her and which are different on this recording.

A 2012 thread on the Perseverance CD release of LILIES OF THE FIELD has additional information on the song:

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=88614&forumID=1&archive=0

as does this link: http://jopiepopie.blogspot.com/2013/07/amen-1942-1950-1963.html

 
 Posted:   Jan 25, 2023 - 12:52 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

It's been decades since I've seen the movie (which I like a lot), and I have not played the soundtrack in a long time either. The score is wonderful (it's in 60s Goldsmith's lyrical Americana stile, so it's related to such scores as THE WALTONS, A PATCH OF BLUE, STAGECOACH). Now the song is very much incorporated into the fabric of the score, and that is obviously all Goldsmith's music (and it's Goldsmith's arrangement of the song that serves as the "Main Title", not the other way around, as I have just recently read, which prompted me to re-open this thread. It's those instrumental arrangements I meant are 100% Goldsmith's.) Then there are the actual gospel sung versions. Now the two sung arrangements may have been indeed done by Hairston (and sung for the movie, with "Amen/Sunday Morning/Amen" also containing Goldsmith music).

Anyway, just listened to it for the first time in ages; it's a lovely score, I like it a lot. Funny, it took me reading a weird credit that made me return to it. I suppose the song "Amen" may have been in some form or another already an existing gospel/spiritual, that Hairston then took and refined or perhaps brought into form, so he is sometimes credited as composer, sometimes as arranger?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 25, 2023 - 11:07 AM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

I first heard Goldsmith's main theme from "Lilies Of The Field" (which includes "Amen") on the "Ten Golden Years" 2 L.P. set via the cover version by Ken Lauber.

 
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