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 Posted:   Aug 22, 2020 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

Just for the sake of accuracy, fmfan, it's Andersen with an E.

Got it! With an E.

Michael Endersen.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2020 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   Josh   (Member)

Josh - I really like the Scanners track! Even so, Shore must have really hidden it there, or maybe I'm just a dope, because I'm not hearing it. The trumpet melody doesn't have the same shape (it's all down and then up at the end, while the Dies Irae is down-up-down-up-down-up), and I'm trying to figure out if the tune is dancing around somewhere else.

Has the Scanners soundtrack ever had a CD release?


It did, on Silva in the 90s, a compilation of suites also including The Brood and Dead Ringers.

I agree it's not Dies Irae but it certainly carries the medieval feel, just not the melody.


Yeah, not the same, but it sounded very similar that evening after consuming several adult beverages.

The Silva CD is a must-have, if just for Scanners alone.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 23, 2020 - 7:33 AM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

Just added a few more - including Elmer Bernstein's Airplane! The 4-note motif shows up when the Jesus statue on the dashboard covers its eyes. Later, the 4-note motif appears when they disengage the auto-pilot Otto and things go to heck all over the plane. The context is right for the reference, and Bernstein has quoted the Dies Irae in many other films.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2020 - 10:47 PM   
 By:   Laurent78   (Member)

I don't think this one has been mentioned yet: I heard a fast rendition of the motive in the tracks 10 and 34 from Carlo Savina's L'ARAUCANA - MASSACRO DEI DEI (released by Kronos Records).

 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2020 - 4:03 AM   
 By:   Ostinato   (Member)

Kan Ishii used Dies irae for his score to "Gorath" (1962), with those cues being DB-2 M-5 and DB-3 M-6.

 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2020 - 4:06 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Surprised no one has mentioned THE OTHER by Jerry Goldsmith, as there is an obvious reference to the "Dies Irae" as well. Have not seen the movie; would be interesting to know what scene it was written for.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2020 - 3:52 PM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

Surprised no one has mentioned THE OTHER by Jerry Goldsmith, as there is an obvious reference to the "Dies Irae" as well. Have not seen the movie; would be interesting to know what scene it was written for.

I hear something close to the 2nd phrase of the chant on the album suite (paired with Mephisto Waltz) at about 10:38. Did you hear it someplace else? This score certainly has a variety of moods. What a beautiful "innocent" theme!

 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2020 - 12:44 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Surprised no one has mentioned THE OTHER by Jerry Goldsmith, as there is an obvious reference to the "Dies Irae" as well. Have not seen the movie; would be interesting to know what scene it was written for.

I hear something close to the 2nd phrase of the chant on the album suite (paired with Mephisto Waltz) at about 10:38. Did you hear it someplace else? This score certainly has a variety of moods. What a beautiful "innocent" theme!


Yeah, that's what I was referring to. The sequence starts at about 9:55 with tubular bells and goes on for about a minute to 10:55. The whole minute contains very clearly a variation of the "Dies Irae" motif that is too obvious for it to be an incidental similarity. (It would definitely fit into a concert set of variations a la "Goldberg" or Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody.) I don't know for what scene the music is actually written; I should watch the movie one day.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2020 - 1:41 AM   
 By:   Makooti   (Member)

To chuck in a few more obscure examples, David Hirschfelder's Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole score has some obvious statements, especially at the 1:54 mark of the track My Soldiers, My Sons.



The other examples might be a little shakier. Nathan Furst's Bionicle 2: Legends of Metru Nui score, 4:15 mark of the track Follow the Light / Mask of Time. I say shaky 'cuz it swings closer to the version heard in Fellowship of the Ring, which you seem to consider dubious already. But, given its placement as the buildup to a character's death, and how it's not a theme used anywhere else in the score, I'd thought it'd be worth a mention.



Another, admittedly-also-flimsy-but-I've-been-suspicious-of-this-one-so-just-go-with-it example is Kevin Kiner and co.'s work on Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Back during Season 3 his team had a recurring choral motif used exclusively for heavy moments centered around death or torment, and its first four notes sound pretty close to Dies Irae before it trails off into its own theme. It's heard at its clearest in the tracks A True Trooper (first four notes) and Everyone Fighting (2:07). Again, bit flimsy, but given how it was used for multiple scenes linked only by overtones of death and pain, not characters or factions or anything the show would usually bind a leitmotif with, again, I thought it'd be worth mentioning.





Legend of the Guardians is the only one I'd insist hard on. Other two have the potential intent behind them but I'll willingly admit they could just be coincidental.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2020 - 3:00 PM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

Nice cues!

I agree with the Legend of the Guardians example. Although it's just the 4 notes, I found the movie on Hulu to hear the cue in context, and the timing is right as the focus switches to the "bad guy owl" and the start of the final fight. I'd be very surprised if this were a conincidence.

The Bionicle one is in that grey area. It's similar to how John Williams uses a "Dies Irae" - like motif in Jurassic Park. It's a similar shape and usage, but I suspect that Williams is not quoting the "Dies Irae" but alluding to the "sound" of it. And that's where the grey area comes in. At what point does alluding to it become quoting it? I'll put Bionicle on the maybe list. Maybe someone has contact information for Mr. Furst and can ask him. (Or ask Mr. Williams. Maybe I'll be like those musicians who serenaded him outside his home. I'll bring my boombox and put in the Jurassic Park CD, and...)

The Kiner was already buried on that long list at the start of the thread - it would be easy to miss. There are even more direct quotes of the Dies Irae in other cues. But I'm glad you brought up Kiner. Has there been another composer who "grew" so much during a series. Maybe it was a function of budget, but I became a bigger and bigger admirer of his music as the series went on.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2020 - 11:49 PM   
 By:   Makooti   (Member)

Nice cues!

I agree with the Legend of the Guardians example. Although it's just the 4 notes, I found the movie on Hulu to hear the cue in context, and the timing is right as the focus switches to the "bad guy owl" and the start of the final fight. I'd be very surprised if this were a conincidence.

The Bionicle one is in that grey area. It's similar to how John Williams uses a "Dies Irae" - like motif in Jurassic Park. It's a similar shape and usage, but I suspect that Williams is not quoting the "Dies Irae" but alluding to the "sound" of it. And that's where the grey area comes in. At what point does alluding to it become quoting it? I'll put Bionicle on the maybe list. Maybe someone has contact information for Mr. Furst and can ask him. (Or ask Mr. Williams. Maybe I'll be like those musicians who serenaded him outside his home. I'll bring my boombox and put in the Jurassic Park CD, and...)

The Kiner was already buried on that long list at the start of the thread - it would be easy to miss. There are even more direct quotes of the Dies Irae in other cues. But I'm glad you brought up Kiner. Has there been another composer who "grew" so much during a series. Maybe it was a function of budget, but I became a bigger and bigger admirer of his music as the series went on.


Thanks!

I've been listening through a nine-and-a-half-hour album of Clone Wars music for last few days, and it's been a real nostalgic blast from the past. Kiner's a fascinating full-circle scenario, going from full techno for his first couple episodes to slowly dialing him back to a Williams-lite orchestral sound, before letting him open back up again, especially on Season 7...though that might've just been his leftover Ghost in the Shell/Doom Patrol showing.

Either way I always thought he was at his best when he wasn't just trying to imitate that Williams sound, regardless of whether it ended up "fitting" Star Wars or not. But at least as time went on he started to nail that sound just as well, especially on TCW Season 5 and Rebels. Going from that original synth-demo-sounding A Galaxy Divided to It's Over Now, hot damn.

But anyways, one more suggestion, since I tried to comb the list hard this time and was surprised that it never got mentioned, despite Chamber of Secrets making it in.

https://youtu.be/Xmwk96mwzmg

Kicks in at 0:34 and gets repeated ad nauseum across the rest of the piece. The context is there, as far as setting up an eerie undertone to a chaotic Quidditch match in the middle of a lightning storm to foreshadow the arrival of the dementors at the end of the sequence, and the notes seem more directly quoted than, say, the Jurassic Park example, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it.

 
 Posted:   Oct 4, 2020 - 7:06 PM   
 By:   Josh   (Member)

Manfredini used it again in FRIDAY THE 13TH: THE GAME, released on CD in 2018 by La-La Land Records:

https://lalalandrecords.com/friday-the-13th-the-game-2-cd-set/

Check the sample for Disc 1, Track 5: Massacre on the Lake.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 5, 2020 - 10:33 AM   
 By:   mikael488   (Member)

Gianni Ferrio's score to the 1967 Italian western ...E divenne il piú spietato bandito del sud aka
A Few Bullets More contains variations as well as a direct quote of the Dies irae.

A variation on electric organ appears between 0:22-0:33:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnGeAng2Z5U&list=OLAK5uy_nJQwaT-i5-0NRzXZRk-ZTKdUki_z5Kr9g&index=8

the same variation is performed by the strings and choir in other tracks.

A direct quotation of the first 7-8 notes can be heard at 1:16:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6uKUTLcg9U&list=OLAK5uy_nJQwaT-i5-0NRzXZRk-ZTKdUki_z5Kr9g&index=10

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 5, 2020 - 2:43 PM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

But anyways, one more suggestion, since I tried to comb the list hard this time and was surprised that it never got mentioned, despite Chamber of Secrets making it in.

https://youtu.be/Xmwk96mwzmg

Kicks in at 0:34 and gets repeated ad nauseum across the rest of the piece. The context is there, as far as setting up an eerie undertone to a chaotic Quidditch match in the middle of a lightning storm to foreshadow the arrival of the dementors at the end of the sequence, and the notes seem more directly quoted than, say, the Jurassic Park example, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it.


I love that track. Such awesome energy. Because I'm a "Type A" person, I'm going to put this down as a "maybe." It's four notes hammered out in a Dies Irae manner with the correct context. However, the intervals are different. So, it's more alluding to the Dies Irae than quoting the actual Dies Irae. (I know - I'm a jerk.) If I asked Mr. Williams, he might say that it's not the Dies Irae but something of a similar flavor, or he could say that it was obviously quoting it. So, we'll keep it a "maybe" for now. But such an excellent cue!!!!

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 21, 2020 - 6:17 AM   
 By:   mikael488   (Member)

La Lupa Mannara aka Werewolf woman (1976) - Coriolano "Lallo" Gori

https://youtu.be/X0xng-_cKcQ?t=1870

 
 Posted:   Oct 21, 2020 - 7:35 AM   
 By:   SBD   (Member)

Paul Chihara's Family of Spies.

 
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