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 Posted:   Jul 6, 2018 - 12:17 PM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

No such thing as s great score in a bad film. If you judge a film score properly. In the film.

Hogwash!

-Erik-

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2018 - 1:17 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Permit me, please, to elaborate on Erik's thesis.

Film is famously a collaborative art form. Each individual on either side of the camera (including pre-productioin and post production) presumably is putting forth his/her best effort to make his/her contribution to the over-all. Each of these artistic or technical components can be assessed both on their own intrinsic merits and on how they work within the film. And there can be any number of reasons why a film over all may fail to achieve greatness, or even goodness, irrespective of everyone's best efforts. As has been pointed out many times, you can work just as hard making a bad film as you can making a good one.

In a movie which for whatever reason(s) doesn't come off, one can still appreciate a fine acting performance, beautiful cinematography, a creative production design, a literate script -- or, a great score.

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2018 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

iN YOUR HEART, YOU know I AM RIGHT!

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2018 - 7:18 PM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)

Preston Neal Jones. Thanks for doing the dirty work for me. Spot on analysis!

Cheers!

-Erik-

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2018 - 7:20 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

Preston Neal Jones. Thanks for doing the dirty work for me. Spot on analysis!

Cheers!

-Erik-


I made the same point.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2018 - 8:07 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Hi, Erik: Skoal!

Hi, Mr. Marshall: Best wishes! (Just out of curiosity, is your red emoji symbolizing embarrassment, or maybe a vampire, or perhaps an embarrassed vampire...?

 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2018 - 8:27 PM   
 By:   Erik Woods   (Member)


I made the same point.


Where? You stated that there is no such thing as a good score in a bad film. I don't see you agreeing with that statement anywhere in this thread?

-Erik-

 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2018 - 9:56 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

Keep looking.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 7, 2018 - 12:39 PM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Erik, I think the clue is in that emoji, the one with the embarrassed vampire pulling our legs.

 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2018 - 5:50 AM   
 By:   dtw   (Member)

Well, if nothing else, this thread has introduced me to Randy Newman's Avalon, with which I was previously unfamiliar. That's a rather lovely score :-)

 
 Posted:   Jul 8, 2018 - 11:00 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

I see this book , like the other I am reading, puts LION IN WINTER at the top of John Barry's work.

HOgwash!

Just because JB composed a significant amount of choral work, everybody drools over themselves.

NOt even in my top 20 for JB. His score for YOLT remains the pinnacle of his art.
BODY HEAT & OHMSS right behind.
Brm

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2022 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   Night   (Member)

It is interesting to compare this author's top 100 list to the lists of top 100 film scores that a few critics fairly recently drew up. Ted Gioia and Terry Teachout named their top 100 film scores. I actually prefer Teachout's list over Gioia's even if I don't closely align with either of them.

Here is Terry Teachout's top 100 list: https://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2019/10/hearing-is-believing-2.html

Here is Ted Gioia's top 100 list (in three parts, behind a paywall): https://tedgioia.substack.com/p/the-100-best-film-soundtracks-part

If I remember correctly, John Williams has the most entries (or a tie with Henry Mancini) on Gioia's list with 4 scores: Superman, Schindler's List, Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. Ennio Morricone, Bernard Herrmann and Jerry Goldsmith all have 3 entries each if I remember correctly.

Here is another top 100 list I found: http://www.americanmusicpreservation.com/100filmscores.htm

John Powell's top 100: https://www.facebook.com/johnpowellmusic/posts/2263616773861612

For those curious, I have compiled the author of this book's top 100 here below (in chronological order):

City Lights (Chaplin)
King Kong (Steiner)
Bride of Frankenstein (Waxman)
Lost Horizon (Tiomkin)
The Prisoner of Zenda (A. Newman)
The Adventures of Robin Hood (Korngold)
Alexander Nevsky (Prokofiev)
Gone with the Wind (Steiner)
The Sea Hawk (Korngold)
Citizen Kane (Herrmann)
Kings Row (Korngold)
Now, Voyager (Steiner)
Casablanca (Steiner)
The Song of Bernadette (A. Newman)
Laura (Raksin)
Henry V (Walton)
Spellbound (Rózsa)
The Best Years of Our Lives (Friedhofer)
The Ghost and Mrs. Muir (Herrmann)
Scott of the Antarctic (Vaughan Williams)
The Red Pony (Copland)
The Third Man (Karas)
Sunset Boulevard (Waxman)
The Day the Earth Stood Still (Herrmann)
A Streetcar Named Desire (North)
Quo Vadis (Rózsa)
High Noon (Tiomkin)
The Robe (A. Newman)
On the Waterfront (L. Bernstein)
East of Eden (Rosenman)
The Man with the Golden Arm (E. Bernstein)
Giant (Tiomkin)
Around the World in 80 Days (Young)
The Spirit of St. Louis (Waxman)
The Bridge on the River Kwai (Arnold)
Vertigo (Herrmann)
The Big Country (Moross)
The 7th Voyage of Sinbad (Herrmann)
North by Northwest (Herrmann)
Ben-Hur (Rózsa)
Psycho (Herrmann)
Spartacus (North)
The Magnificent Seven (E. Bernstein)
Breakfast at Tiffany's (Mancini)
King of Kings (Rózsa)
How the West Was Won (A. Newman)
Lawrence of Arabia (Jarre)
To Kill a Mockingbird (E. Bernstein)
The Great Escape (E. Bernstein)
Tom Jones (Addison)
The Pink Panther (Mancini)
Becket (Rosenthal)
Doctor Zhivago (Jarre)
Born Free (Barry)
Planet of the Apes (Goldsmith)
The Lion in Winter (Barry)
Once Upon a Time in the West (Morricone)
The Godfather: Part I + II (Rota)
Chinatown (Goldsmith)
Jaws (Williams)
The Omen (Goldsmith)
Star Wars (Williams)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind (Williams)
Superman (Williams)
Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Goldsmith)
Somewhere in Time (Barry)
Chariots of Fire (Vangelis)
Raiders of the Lost Ark (Williams)
On Golden Pond (Grusin)
Conan the Barbarian (Poledouris)
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (Williams)
Blade Runner (Vangelis)
The Natural (R. Newman)
Back to the Future (Silvestri)
Out of Africa (Barry)
The Mission (Morricone)
Empire of the Sun (Williams)
Cinema Paradiso (Morricone)
Batman (Elfman)
Avalon (R. Newman)
Dances with Wolves (Barry)
Edward Scissorhands (Elfman)
The Last of the Mohicans (Jones & Edelman)
The Piano (Nyman)
Jurassic Park (Williams)
Schindler's List (Williams)
Forrest Gump (Silvestri)
The Shawshank Redemption (T. Newman)
Braveheart (Horner)
Fargo (Burwell)
Titanic (Horner)
The Red Violin (Corigliano)
The Green Mile (T. Newman)
Gladiator (Zimmer)
Unbreakable (Howard)
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (Shore)
A Beautiful Mind (Horner)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (Badelt)
Up (Giacchino)
Interstellar (Zimmer)

Composers with multiple entries in this guy's top 100 include: Steiner (4), Waxman (3), Tiomkin (3), A Newman (4), Korngold (3), Herrmann (7), Rózsa (4), North, E. Bernstein (4), Mancini, Jarre, Barry (5), Goldsmith (4), Morricone (3), Williams (9), Vangelis, R. Newman, Silvestri, Elfman, T. Newman, Horner (3), Zimmer.

I'm glad to see Friedhofer and Rosenman included even if they only have one entry each, but no Fielding, Goldenthal, Takemitsu, Delerue etc? He is overlooking some major film composers...

This is probably the top 100 list that I agree with the least. Way too many Williams, Barry, A. Newman, Steiner and Horner scores for me.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2022 - 7:39 PM   
 By:   Chris Malone   (Member)

The trouble with a publication like this is how readers will throw it across the room when they can’t find their own favourite score. Perhaps that’s reasonable, perhaps not.

I was coincidentally reading it yesterday. I guess my take-away was, if it can encourage someone to explore, say, Waxman (or whomever), who never has listened to a Waxman before then we’re all good?

Chris

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2022 - 10:17 PM   
 By:   Mephariel   (Member)

You and Thor.

Ridiculous!


How is it ridiculous? Film music without the film is music, just like any other music. I judge it on its own terms. I don't need to think about the film unless I want to.


This is why I have a hard time taking film music communities seriously sometimes. If you judge a film score outside of the film, you are not judging the quality of a film score period. You are judging "Enjoyable Music to Listen to on a Rainy Day - Visual Media Edition."

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2022 - 10:20 PM   
 By:   Mephariel   (Member)

I think the book should be called "100 Essential Film Scores."

Then you can define essential anyway you want to. For example, it may be hard to justify POTC as a 100 greatest score, although you can, but you can easily argued that it popularized pirate scores in the modern day or served as a template for popular adventure scores and thus it is an essential score. That or you make it clear with examples why it works so well in the film to be the 100 greatest.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2022 - 11:42 PM   
 By:   The Shadow   (Member)

deleted

 
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