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 Posted:   Feb 4, 2019 - 3:04 PM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

I have to give it up for Planet of the Apes, which was imo far more imaginative and risk-taking than Lion in Winter. That said, I never gelled with LiW at all and find it (and the majority of what I've heard of Barry's work) insipid and boring.

But that's my opinion, one formed after trying out half a dozen full scores by JB. But who knows, I might have missed something that would help me click with him...

Jerry 100%.


Hi, WagnerAlmighty.

Several FSM users have both Goldsmith & Barry in their usernames, such as 'goldsmithbarryfan' and 'WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin'.
I wonder what they think of your statements above?

Have you ever chatted about John Barry's insipid and boring work with board members like Stephen Woolston, Tall Guy, MusicMad, Alex Klein, villagardens553, etc.? big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 4, 2019 - 3:17 PM   
 By:   DavidCorkum   (Member)

Planet of the Apes is arguably (and I'm sure many will) Goldsmith's magnum opus, the most important score he would do. So with respect to Barry, it's ridiculous that it didn't win the Oscar.

Although realistically, it's time that sorts out the classics, not the Oscars. They're just a present day popularity contest.

 
 Posted:   Feb 4, 2019 - 3:20 PM   
 By:   JohnnyG   (Member)

I have to give it up for Planet of the Apes, which was imo far more imaginative and risk-taking than Lion in Winter. That said, I never gelled with LiW at all and find it (and the majority of what I've heard of Barry's work) insipid and boring.

But that's my opinion, one formed after trying out half a dozen full scores by JB. But who knows, I might have missed something that would help me click with him...

Jerry 100%.


Hi, WagnerAlmighty.

Several FSM users have both Goldsmith & Barry in their usernames, such as 'goldsmithbarryfan' and 'WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin'.
I wonder what they think of your statements above?

Have you ever chatted about John Barry's insipid and boring work with board members like Stephen Woolston, Tall Guy, MusicMad, Alex Klein, villagardens553, etc.? big grin



There's always the possibility that WagnerAlmighty listened to the wrong half dozen JB scores!
(The problem is that I can hardly imagine anyone listening to any six JB scores and coming to the conclusion that this is a boring composer...!)

 
 Posted:   Feb 4, 2019 - 3:34 PM   
 By:   BillCarson   (Member)

No its not a good idea to diss The Barry...

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 4, 2019 - 10:43 PM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

You are correct, Bill. Not great to diss Barry. I love Barry; however, A Lion In Winter, while being well-done is not a favorite Barry score for me. It is just personal taste. I think Barry wrote the loveliest LOVE theme ever composed for a movie for Robin and Marian. I could name many many more Barry scores that I absolutely love, but I'm just "meh" on A Lion In Winter. Perhaps I should watch the movie again and give it one more try.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 5, 2019 - 3:18 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

You are correct, Bill. Not great to diss Barry. I love Barry; however, A Lion In Winter, while being well-done is not a favorite Barry score for me. It is just personal taste. I think Barry wrote the loveliest LOVE theme ever composed for a movie for Robin and Marian. I could name many many more Barry scores that I absolutely love, but I'm just "meh" on A Lion In Winter. Perhaps I should watch the movie again and give it one more try.

Five "Barrys" in a 4-sentence paragraph? Impressive. wink

 
 Posted:   Feb 5, 2019 - 4:10 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

We all have our favorites and nots. I certainly more than recognize Barry as a great film composer (I'd be a total boob not to do so), his music doesn't do it for me. Some things just don't click for some people.

Steiner is an even greater film composer whom mostly leaves me cold, though as most here know I practically live for the Golden (and Silver) age(s).

 
 Posted:   Feb 5, 2019 - 7:14 AM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

You are correct, Bill. Not great to diss Barry. I love Barry; however, A Lion In Winter, while being well-done is not a favorite Barry score for me. It is just personal taste. I think Barry wrote the loveliest LOVE theme ever composed for a movie for Robin and Marian. I could name many many more Barry scores that I absolutely love, but I'm just "meh" on A Lion In Winter. Perhaps I should watch the movie again and give it one more try.

For me, the Lion In Winter is not among my favorite Barry scores. I agree about the love them for Robin and Marian as well. I could name several but Out of Africa and Raise the Titanic come to mind.

I think you can certainly dislike a composer's work but I don't see the need paint it with such a negative brush. I thinks his film discography speaks glowingly for itself.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 5, 2019 - 8:34 AM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

WagnerAlmighty, Here are 5 JB works that you may not have heard that may shed a different light on your perception, not knowing what you've heard.

1) The main title theme from The Ipcress File, soundtrack album version. The Metallic, stark sound of the cimbalom with that haunting CTS echo leading the chorus of flutes and muted trumpet managed to capture the sound of the cold war and comment on the solitary nature of the main character.
2) The Last Valley soundtrack album, either original (better) or re-recorded (expanded). Even with the large orchestra and chorus it is really not like The Lion in Winter. Brutal at times, but with perhaps Barry's greatest lyrical theme--and that's saying a lot.
3) The Knack soundtrack album. Rarely does a comedy score stand up after 50 years, or have so much wit and warmth.
4) "The Yesternow Suite" from The Americans non-soundtrack album. 17 minutes of jazz group with orchestra, a slew of wonderful themes from dark to nostalgic to charmingly upbeat--an adjective you rarely hear in association with Barry's music.
5) "Romance For Guitar and Orchestra" from Deadfall. Stand alone piece that also served as background to a heist.

Hope this helps. If not, no worries. I'll paraphrase Duke Ellington when asked to explain jazz to someone who didn't understand it: If you don't know, no explanation is possible. If you do know, none is necessary.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 10, 2019 - 6:32 PM   
 By:   JSDouglas   (Member)

Using Scott Bettencourt's research on the subject we find that the Oscar's music branch had five other potential nominee's under consideration:

FOR LOVE OF IVY - Quincy Jones
THE HEART IS A LONELY HUNTER - Dave Grusin
RACHEL, RACHEL - Jerome Moross
ROMEO AND JULIET - Nino Rota
WAR AND PEACE - Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov

And for what it's worth, Page Cook (film music critic for "Films in Review" magazine) offered up the following five titles as best of that year:

WILL PENNY - David Raksin
THE POWER - Miklos Rozsa
FIRECREEK - Alfred Newman
THE BRIDE WORE BLACK - Bernard Herrmann
ROMEO AND JULIET - Nino Rota

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 11, 2019 - 6:15 AM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

Page Cook's top 5 scores surprise me, only for the inclusion of Romeo and Juliet. I remember reading Cook's review of R & J (in the same issue as The Lion in Winter) and I thought he disliked the score.

Anyway, I love Rota's score. If it had been nominated, I think it would have won the oscar. The music for that film was so popular that year. I'll stick with The Lion in Winter.

 
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