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 Posted:   Feb 5, 2019 - 11:40 PM   
 By:   Lewya   (Member)

I was just thinking about this, what do you consider the last most important film score to be and why do you consider it important?

For me, I would probably say Cliff Martinez's score for Solaris from 2002. It is one of the top 5 film scores of the 21st century, and above all, one of the best examples of electronic music in film ever (top 10), therefore I do consider it probably the last most important score that was released.

The three other scores from the 21st century I consider important are Williams's A.I., Newman's Angels in America and Shore's The Lord of the Rings, but I am not sure wether I could make as strong case for any of them being more important than Martinez's Solaris.

Solaris isn't my favourite film score of the 21st century (but it is in my top 5), but I can't deny that it is maybe the most important score that the new century has seen so far. It was something fresh that reached all-time greatness for the artform.

What would you say was the last important film score and why?

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 1:31 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Total Recall.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 1:34 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

"Important" is such a broad term. Important in relation to what? Selling a lot? Being influential? Breaching new territory?

While SOLARIS is a great score, I don't think it's particularly important -- it's pretty much within Martinez' established style and has not influenced much in and of itself. But it may be important TO YOU, of course. That's a different story.

I think the last massively influential score was Zimmer's INCEPTION (which, in turn, no doubt took a lot of DNA from Powell's ostinato-driven BOURNE scores, IMO the most influential action score in the 21st century).

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 1:55 AM   
 By:   Lewya   (Member)

"Important" is such a broad term. Important in relation to what? Selling a lot? Being influential? Breaching new territory?

While SOLARIS is a great score, I don't think it's particularly important -- it's pretty much within Martinez' established style and has not influenced much in and of itself. But it may be important TO YOU, of course. That's a different story.

I think the last massively influential score was Zimmer's INCEPTION (which, in turn, no doubt took a lot of DNA from Powell's ostinato-driven BOURNE scores, IMO the most influential action score in the 21st century).


Definitely not selling a lot no, that doesn't matter at all.

I mean historically, for film music history in terms of greatness. For instance, if we talk about electronic music in film you pretty much can't not mention Martinez's Solaris, therefore, I do consider it an important film score. It is one of the best examples of electronic music in film ever, and I would argue even the best example of electronic music in film in the 21st century, at least for me and many of the fan base of this score. It is also one of the rare scores that transcended the film as a cult favourite as a concept album, so that's also another thing too.

I do agree with you that Inception was the last most influential film score (but not for the better), but imo not as important of a score when it comes to greatness historically in film music history. But if you think Inception is an all-time great score then that's obviously fine, I was just curious what other people would single out and why. I really do like Inception by the way, but to me it falls short of an all-time list (or at least wouldn't rank anywhere near as high as Solaris would).

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 2:00 AM   
 By:   Lewya   (Member)

Total Recall.

Why? One of the best action scores?

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 2:00 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

To be completely fair, it's quite possible Dark Knight was the most influential action score of this century. It's just that even Zimmer has deferred to JG's original use of synths on Total Recall, the latter being a favorite of HZ's.

As far as non-action, I'm sure Mr. Elfman and Shore would be in the running.

It's just that I don't see anything as trendsettingly original as Total Recall since its release (and please keep in mind, I really like stuff like Interstellar, Insidious, and quite a few others from the past two and a half decades.

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 2:01 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Total Recall.

Why? One of the best action scores?


See above, please. I'm big on originality.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 3:47 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

To be completely fair, it's quite possible Dark Knight was the most influential action score of this century. It's just that even Zimmer has deferred to JG's original use of synths on Total Recall, the latter being a favorite of HZ's.

None of the new BATMAN scores would exist as they are if it weren't for Powell's first BOURNE score. That is THE major reference for all international action music since 2002. I like the fact that Zimmer's former pupil would change the scene so much that even Zimmer -- himself responsible for so many 'important'/'influential' scores in the preceding years -- had to adher to that. The pupil becomes the master etc.

But then I think he re-conceptualized it further with INCEPTION, even beyond the BOURNE influence, to the extent that most action music in the following years would use its DNA.

I can't think of any scores since INCEPTION that has had a similar, wide-ranging influence -- and thus the claim for "important score". Obviously, these things take time, so it would be too premature to name any scores in the last 3-4 years 'important'. Let's give it 10 years to see.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 3:52 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I mean historically, for film music history in terms of greatness. For instance, if we talk about electronic music in film you pretty much can't not mention Martinez's Solaris, therefore, I do consider it an important film score. It is one of the best examples of electronic music in film ever, and I would argue even the best example of electronic music in film in the 21st century, at least for me and many of the fan base of this score. It is also one of the rare scores that transcended the film as a cult favourite as a concept album, so that's also another thing too.

I share your love of SOLARIS, no doubt or hesitation there. Wonderful score! I just don't hear or see any particular things in terms of influence or reference points. If anything, it's a continuation of Martinez' own style at this point. If Martinez has any claim to fame in terms of important scores, or crossover scores with cult appeal, it would be DRIVE (but then that owes equally much to the use of other existing tracks, like "Tick of the Clock").

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 4:15 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

To be completely fair, it's quite possible Dark Knight was the most influential action score of this century. It's just that even Zimmer has deferred to JG's original use of synths on Total Recall, the latter being a favorite of HZ's.

None of the new BATMAN scores would exist as they are if it weren't for Powell's first BOURNE score. That is THE major reference for all international action music since 2002. I like the fact that Zimmer's former pupil would change the scene so much that even Zimmer -- himself responsible for so many 'important'/'influential' scores in the preceding years -- had to adher to that. The pupil becomes the master etc.

But then I think he re-conceptualized it further with INCEPTION, even beyond the BOURNE influence, to the extent that most action music in the following years would use its DNA.

I can't think of any scores since INCEPTION that has had a similar, wide-ranging influence -- and thus the claim for "important score". Obviously, these things take time, so it would be too premature to name any scores in the last 3-4 years 'important'. Let's give it 10 years to see.


I'm interested in the Bourne now. I really like a couple of cues from Inception.

I know, I shouldn't be measuring scores this century against Ben-Hur, Peyton Place, The Robe. A different skill set, for one thing.

I have nothing against what people like or dislike, in fact I try to fastidiously respect (and even learn something from) other folks' opinions.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 4:51 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Knowing your taste a bit, I don't think you'll necessarily enjoy the BOURNE scores. But the influence is monumental, whether one likes it or not.

I know, I shouldn't be measuring scores this century against Ben-Hur, Peyton Place, The Robe. A different skill set, for one thing.

That's certainly true. You COULD certainly measure them that way, but you'd need to measure scores in a similar idiom and approach. Not with something incompatible. Just as you wouldn't normally measure Bob Dylan with Mozart or whatever.

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 5:24 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Just as you wouldn't normally measure Bob Dylan with Mozart or whatever.

This is a really good point, and we could just as conceivably argue the bananas-and-oranges things re Rap music and Bach.

Dylan and (according to fans) some of the Rap artists are more like the Beat movement, it's all about a good set of changes (and in the latter a killer, over limited beat) framing poetry. The music is incidental (which could be said for at least attention-engaging Zimmer-lovefests like the Winter Soldier score).

When it comes to Mozart, Bach...shoot, sizable portions of Mr. Goldsmith, it's about the music. I hear more and more incidental music in scores today, music that only works in the context of the film. Much of the latter has to do the lowest common denominator pandering run rampant in this century (actually, I'm probably shortchanging the time frame, forgive me if so).

It probably is entirely personal...Ben Hur as a score had some completely different goals in mind than Dark Knight (though each could in large part be likened to Westerns story-wise...try taking away the nature of the epiphanies in BH, for instance). Where both were trying to make music that framed and made more emotional/better/patched up the cracks in the actual film, DK was about minimalism as a shortcut to visceral intensity, while Ben-Hur was written largely with history in mind (Rozsa was, correct me if I'm wrong, more than conscious of making something that would last the ages, while Zimmer dealt with another composer partly because what Rozsa aimed for was out of the question concerning his skill set, and even with the excellent JNH DK is destined to be a footnote in what has become more and more a novelty-aiming industry imo.)

Now, these are mostly just positions I'm taking (though that last about the MacDonald's disposability of the modern "art" world is me all the way). And please keep in mind I'm not even a fraction the success that any of the names mentioned above are.

Sour grapes might be afoot lol!

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 5:58 AM   
 By:   ryanpaquet   (Member)

I still think Zimmer's Interstellar was pretty huge - to be able to sellout Royal Albert Hall for a live to film performance so close to the film's release is quite impressive. It was a huge score for me.

Martinez's SOLARIS is also a phenomenal work.

Tron Legacy was another big one for me, it sure influenced Aquaman's score. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 6:29 AM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

I really like Solaris, like most of the film scores influenced by Steve Reich :


 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 6:37 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

"Important" is such a broad term. Important in relation to what? Selling a lot? Being influential? Breaching new territory?

While SOLARIS is a great score, I don't think it's particularly important -- it's pretty much within Martinez' established style and has not influenced much in and of itself. But it may be important TO YOU, of course. That's a different story.

I think the last massively influential score was Zimmer's INCEPTION (which, in turn, no doubt took a lot of DNA from Powell's ostinato-driven BOURNE scores, IMO the most influential action score in the 21st century).


knock me over with a feather, I agree with Thor about Solaris 02.

Inception was very influential, in the way that the infernal Bwahh was used over and over and over and over and over again in trailer music, and then copied by hack composers, over and over and over again. But it is NOT great music at all. Influential and good are not the same thing.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 6:39 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Influential and good are not the same thing.

That is very true. We agree there, but disagree on the merits of the INCEPTION score, obviously, which I think is marvelous.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 6:42 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Influential and good are not the same thing.

That is very true. We agree there, but disagree on the merits of the INCEPTION score, obviously, which I think is marvelous.


alright Thor, good morning to you - at least where I am

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 6:48 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Re: Total Recall- I'm pretty sure Jerry just put a mic underneath a metal trash can and beat the hell out of it.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 6:50 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Re: Total Recall- I'm pretty sure Jerry just put a mic underneath a metal trash can and beat the hell out of it.

you just have not been the same since your Avatar changed bud

 
 Posted:   Feb 6, 2019 - 7:10 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

Re: Total Recall- I'm pretty sure Jerry just put a mic underneath a metal trash can and beat the hell out of it.

Yeah, that's weird.

 
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