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 Posted:   Mar 25, 2019 - 8:41 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

Bunch of HD movie clips went up on YouTube tonight.



More of the awful soundtrack revisionism, sadly...note the added "choo-choo" train SFX when Fievel is getting pushed through the snow by the Cossack Cat. frown How I wish that Shout Factory or some other label would rescue this movie and restore the original soundtrack (not to mention sprucing up the transfer and adding some extra features).

 
 Posted:   Mar 25, 2019 - 8:55 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Bunch of HD movie clips went up on YouTube tonight.

More of the awful soundtrack revisionism, sadly...note the added "choo-choo" train SFX when Fievel is getting pushed through the snow by the Cossack Cat. frown How I wish that Shout Factory or some other label would rescue this movie and restore the original soundtrack (not to mention sprucing up the transfer and adding some extra features).


Been well aware of the audio changes for years. Its unwatchable. I hate what they did to this film. There's never been an explanation for this either. Was it Spielberg's doing? Someone at the studio thought, "Hey I can improve this!" What happened? To my knowledge no official accounting or acknowledgement for these changes.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2019 - 7:52 AM   
 By:   Mike Esssss   (Member)


I'd also look forward to FIEVEL GOES WEST in the future- as I have never heard that one to date.


That's a super-fun score, even if Horner's riffs on Copland are especially brazen. It's MUCH different than the first American Tail, but it makes for a varied listening experience.


True. Any unreleased variations on "Dreams To Dream" would make it worth the price of admission alone.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2019 - 7:57 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

Bunch of HD movie clips went up on YouTube tonight.

More of the awful soundtrack revisionism, sadly...note the added "choo-choo" train SFX when Fievel is getting pushed through the snow by the Cossack Cat. frown How I wish that Shout Factory or some other label would rescue this movie and restore the original soundtrack (not to mention sprucing up the transfer and adding some extra features).


Been well aware of the audio changes for years. Its unwatchable. I hate what they did to this film. There's never been an explanation for this either. Was it Spielberg's doing? Someone at the studio thought, "Hey I can improve this!" What happened? To my knowledge no official accounting or acknowledgement for these changes.


Wow, that is odd... why would they add in train SFX as if this were a Looney Tune cartoon? The movie strives for realism in most every way, so that just seems off-base.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2019 - 8:37 AM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

Ok stupid question time - I haven't seen AAT in decades, planning to rewatch & see its on Netflix stream - any ideas of that is the "updated" version or perhaps the pre-tinkered version? Longshot but maybe someone has checked it...

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2019 - 8:40 AM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

Just checked the version on Netflix streaming, and the audio changes are still present. mad

It's so maddening...it's one of my childhood favorites, and I can't enjoy it the same way anymore. frown

What I think happened was, these additional sound effects and voice tracks were in the original mix of the film, but were removed by Don Bluth or Steven Spielberg or someone else at the time of the movie's theatrical release, but when the movie was prepared for its DVD debut in 2004, some overzealous sound guy in the Universal home video department was tasked to create a new 5.1 surround track, found the additional SFX and dialogue, and decided to put them ALL back in. Check out the two versions of Fievel getting harassed by the trio of orphan bullies:



Pay close attention to the lip-synch on the second, DVD version, where the orphan says, "You're nothing, you're junk, you're trash!" That line actually fits the mouth movements better, indicating that that was the original line/voice performance it was animated to (as opposed to, "Yeah, forget 'em, you're one of us now!"), which leads me to surmise that the DVD audio was just a temp track (probably with members of the animation crew providing the voices), and that the theatrical voices were re-dubbed over the existing animation when it was decided that having actual children record the lines would be more effective.

There's also the scene where Fievel has been captured and is in the birdcage. In the theatrical mix, all you hear is James Horner's music and Fievel quietly crying, but in the DVD/Blu/Netflix streaming version, you hear off-screen dialogue from one of Warren T. Rat's can henchmen telling Tiger to stand guard, and Tiger responding. I can't imagine they called up Dom DeLuise to record additional lines for Tiger almost 20 years after the fact. I just wish someone at Universal would listen to the complaints and re-issue the movie on Blu with the option of listening to the unmolested theatrical mix.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2019 - 9:28 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

@ Mr Jack- It's all speculation here but I don't believe the "new" audio track was the original audio track.
It's completely inconsistent with Bluth's style. Dom DeLuise's line could be an outtake or dialog not used in the original cut of the film.

This new audio mix is consistent with "dumbing down", which has been on going in entertainment industry for over a decade. They added off screen voices and sound effects practically everyplace there was a moment of silence or only music playing. Hollywood believes kids in particular need constant stimuli or they'll get bored.

I do recall reading somewhere the orphans voices at the end of the film were replaced. Or that was speculation as well I don't remember. So you could be correct about that.

But I think the majority of the changes are new to the DVD/Blu Ray/Streaming releases.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2019 - 10:41 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

A Big Box Of Goodies dropped through my door today, courtesy of those Wonderful Intradians smile

This is first up to be played and MY GOD, it SOUNDS absolutely Glorious!!
Orchestral details revealed as never heard before.
THIS is how CD restorations should sound.
Hats Off to you all!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2019 - 8:28 PM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

Thanks for confirming Mr. Jack, I figured why would Netflix be any different?.... but why not ask...

I've run into this audio remix/ torture on a few occasions & had to just erase history for myself, try to embrace the new mix, since that's probably all she wrote...

Very frustrating stuff - in spite of the film, I can't wait till this new cd lands & am able to give it a real listen.
I've always preferred the sequel score for numerous, boring reasons. Will give Tail 1 a closer shot.

-Sean

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2019 - 8:42 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)



I've run into this audio remix/ torture on a few occasions & had to just erase history for myself, try to embrace the new mix, since that's probably all she wrote...


There are precedents for terrible, overzealous DVD/Blu 5.1 mixes eventually getting rectified by a later release (Jaws being a good example, the notorious 2000 5.1 DVD mix finally being pushed aside by the original, theatrical mono track being added to the subsequent DVD and Blu releases), but I have little faith it will happen for Tail, unless it gets an eventual UHD release, and even then, Universal will probably not care. frown And it's so stupid...that original mix still exists, and it'd take up virtually no disc space to include. Even in lossless quality, it'd still be preferable to the ghastly 5.1 track, which is even worse than the 5.1 Terminator track that neuters Arnie's gun by making it sound like it has a wimpy silencer attached. mad

Then again...


 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2019 - 7:20 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I remember when I heard the announcement for a Blu Ray release I wrote to the company and told them the DVD release had an all new audio track and it ruined the film. I encouraged them to please release the film on BluRay with the original theatrical audio track.

I got some vague response like, "For various reasons a title maybe released a certain way." Got no other explanation, though in all honesty the person I was communicating with probably didn't know what I was taking about.

Unless Bluth or Spielberg gets involved (and assuming they desire a theatrical restoration of the film)
I don't see this ever getting fixed. Universal doesn't seem to care about these films. They look absolutely terrible on Blu Ray. Nothing is cleaned up at all.

 
 Posted:   Mar 27, 2019 - 7:51 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

Universal has not been the most helpful with regard to issues with their catalog titles, I agree. It's just a job for most of the people I've interacted with, so film is not a passion.

 
 Posted:   May 7, 2019 - 7:15 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

Listening to this gem again tonight, and it strikes me just how little of Horner's typical "borrowings" it contains. Listen to any other Horner effort from that era, and you'll hear tons of licks from earlier scores, or cues that would be dropped almost verbatim into later efforts (like that Copland "hoedown" cue from Journey Of Natty Gann reappearing virtually unchanged in Honey, I Shrunk The Kids), but, aside from some vague Trek rhythms during the Fievel chase cues late in the picture, it consists of almost entirely original material. I wonder if Horner were truly inspired by the film to dig deep and not half-ass his way through it.

 
 Posted:   May 7, 2019 - 7:42 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I'm still playing this expansion on a regular bases. With the additional music it's truly like listening to a new score which keeps replays fresh.

This really happened tonight. I was playing it in my car on the way home from work. Drove into my driveway and when I got out a neighbor asked me, "Whats that music from?" I said, "An American Tail". and he replied, "Oh yeah a Don Bluth film." eek

 
 Posted:   May 7, 2019 - 8:13 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)


This really happened tonight. I was playing it in my car on the way home from work. Drove into my driveway and when I got out a neighbor asked me, "Whats that music from?" I said, "An American Tail". and he replied, "Oh yeah a Don Bluth film." eek


That's awesome!

 
 Posted:   May 8, 2019 - 11:56 AM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

I'm still playing this expansion on a regular bases. With the additional music it's truly like listening to a new score which keeps replays fresh.

This really happened tonight. I was playing it in my car on the way home from work. Drove into my driveway and when I got out a neighbor asked me, "Whats that music from?" I said, "An American Tail". and he replied, "Oh yeah a Don Bluth film." eek


That's great. I can't count the times when I have played scores from the 70's forward that my husband or daughter will ask what it is and when I tell them, they know the producer and/or director.

 
 
 Posted:   May 9, 2019 - 4:17 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I'd be surprised if ANY LIVING PERSON in the UK would know the name Don Bluth, outside of the UK persons who visit this site!

 
 Posted:   May 9, 2019 - 7:29 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I'd be surprised if ANY LIVING PERSON in the UK would know the name Don Bluth, outside of the UK persons who visit this site!

I think Bluth gained a little bit of name recognition when he worked with Spielberg. But I remember for years after his debut film, The Secret of NIMH EVERYONE from the guy on the street to written articles referred to it as "That Disney movie".

 
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