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 Posted:   Feb 27, 2019 - 3:33 PM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

Was the two-channel stereo mix for lesser theaters and home video just a mix-down of the 6-track?

70mm prints had discrete 6 track Dolby Stereo on the magnetic track (although the split-surround version that can be heard on the 4K HDR disc had a very, very limited release; most 70mm theaters would have shown it in what we would now call 4.1: left, right, center, with a mono surround, the other track being part of the “baby boom” bass channel).

35mm prints had a 2 track Dolby Stereo on their optical tracks that could be matrixed out like Dolby Surround. Pre-2000 home video releases and cable TV airings would have had the 2 track stereo mix. This track appeared in the on the DVD and Blu-ray of the theatrical version.

I would suspect, given the era the movie was produced in, that optical mono prints were also struck. A mono mix can be heard on the extended TV cut Blu-ray.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2019 - 3:45 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)


Is the album mix is essentially a port-over of the full music mix from the 6-track? Was the two-channel stereo mix for lesser theaters and home video just a mix-down of the 6-track?


Allegedly the 2-channel on the letterbox laserdisc and Family Entertainment VHS is a fold down from the 6-track. The Dolby Surround track that appears on the anthology dvd and blu-ray (and probably the original laserdisc and 1986 VHS) is the actual track that appeared on 35mm prints and sounds quite different.

The original album mix was mastered from a 4th-5th gen 2-track tape. While it sounded fine on vinyl, the cds revealed artifacts resulting from the higher gen source. This one is a complete reconstruction from the multis.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2019 - 4:25 PM   
 By:   erepel   (Member)

With the First Gen tapes now electronically archived, is there now source material and technical capability to release a Superman product similar to the Lord of the Rings Blu-ray audio discs?

 
 Posted:   Feb 28, 2019 - 7:31 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Interesting that STAR TREK TMP's 2-inch tapes had to be baked in an oven, but SUPERMAN didn't. Were there no issues at all with the condition of SUPERMAN's tapes?

 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2019 - 10:04 AM   
 By:   JeffM   (Member)

My question is: who determines the track order? Or more specifically, who's decision is it to put the original Main and End Titles at the start and end of the programs, but bury the film versions in the extras?

Is this something contractually decided by JW's group or is it LLL's decision?

 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2019 - 12:46 PM   
 By:   Mike Matessino   (Member)

My question is: who determines the track order? Or more specifically, who's decision is it to put the original Main and End Titles at the start and end of the programs, but bury the film versions in the extras?

Is this something contractually decided by JW's group or is it LLL's decision?


It is a case-by-case issue. I present how I feel the program should be and then submit it for approval. Sometimes I'm told to proceed with it and then will get notes after it's assembled.

In this case, the Superman main title is not a "film version" in the sense that revised inserts were done, etc. It is something that was cobbled together editorially later. In the movie it's actually quite clumsy, with bars cut out and a raised pitch applied. Therefore the proper approach was to present what the composer actually intended, and then have the early version alternate and cobbled-together film version main titles in the bonus section. And actually we might have dropped the latter if not for the fact that it was on the two prior editions of the score. But we had room, so it was included it, and it's there for anyone who prefers that version as the start of the score rather than the one that actually fits the credits the way Williams designed it.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2019 - 1:55 PM   
 By:   erepel   (Member)

In this case, the Superman main title is not a "film version" in the sense that revised inserts were done, etc. It is something that was cobbled together editorially later. In the movie it's actually quite clumsy, with bars cut out and a raised pitch applied. Therefore the proper approach was to present what the composer actually intended, and then have the early version alternate and cobbled-together film version main titles in the bonus section. And actually we might have dropped the latter if not for the fact that it was on the two prior editions of the score. But we had room, so it was included it, and it's there for anyone who prefers that version as the start of the score rather than the one that actually fits the credits the way Williams designed it.

Glad there was room. Comparing the new edit with the Blue Box version was interesting.

The things I can hear now in the music ... thank you, sir, for making 40 years ago sound like yesterday.

 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2019 - 2:03 PM   
 By:   Mike Matessino   (Member)

In this case, the Superman main title is not a "film version" in the sense that revised inserts were done, etc. It is something that was cobbled together editorially later. In the movie it's actually quite clumsy, with bars cut out and a raised pitch applied. Therefore the proper approach was to present what the composer actually intended, and then have the early version alternate and cobbled-together film version main titles in the bonus section. And actually we might have dropped the latter if not for the fact that it was on the two prior editions of the score. But we had room, so it was included it, and it's there for anyone who prefers that version as the start of the score rather than the one that actually fits the credits the way Williams designed it.

Glad there was room. Comparing the new edit with the Blue Box version was interesting.

The things I can hear now in the music ... thank you, sir, for making 40 years ago sound like yesterday.


Thanks! We were so fortunate that these were in overall great shape. To answer a question from back a bit, they didn't need baking like the Star Trek rolls did. It just depends on the tape stock used and the storage conditions if a stickiness develops that baking gets rid of and allows the tapes to play smoothly.

 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2019 - 2:06 PM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

Wish I had a system to play back the 70mm Dolby six-track on home video.

Mr. Matessino makes that experience sound as monumental as the new soundtrack release.

 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2019 - 5:09 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Wish I had a system to play back the 70mm Dolby six-track on home video.


I know what you mean. After being accustomed to Superman on ear buds, I recall being blown away by the main titles to SUPERMAN RETURNS in the theater, just on sound quality alone. But the LLL CD is going to be more than good enough for me.

 
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