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 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 5:52 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

The Directors Cut, nice guy that Wise is, is just not the better film. It was a good effort, and I am glad that it made Wise feel better. But in almost every case the first theatrical cut of a picture, even hurried, is the best one. When directors start second guessing and adding and subtracting, it is always worse.

To this day I don't know why ppl prefer director cuts over the theatrical versions. I've yet to see a better film come from all this noodling around.


Without a doubt, both the directors cut of "Kingdom of Heaven" and "Once Upon a Time in America" not only are better films than their theatrical cut counterparts, some even dare say they are near classics if not outright.. The theatrical cuts don't carry a candle compared to their "restored" versions.



That's a really good point about OUATIA. The theatrical version should never be seen again except in film school as an example of butchery.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 6:59 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

And trimmed it down to 55 minute episode runtime. I know that's a bit generous since standard runtime was reduced to 45 minutes by the 1980s.


Aren't you being a little harsh on a movie that you love so much?


Lol, it was a childhood trauma! Nothing measures up to Season One of TOS.
To paraphrase the Admiral (or Captain), I have never trusted Paramount and I never will. I could never forgive them for the death of Star Trek TOS.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 7:10 AM   
 By:   jackfu   (Member)

I enjoy(ed) STTMP immensely – in 1979 & in 2019. It accomplished much of what I assume was intended – Star Trek the Original Series on a grand scale. Full-blown, state-of-the-art effects, big story, big ending, big cast, etc. At last! – Our favorite sci-fi TV show, given the special effects budget we always wanted and felt it (we) deserved; an Enterprise with real windows and lights, engines that looked like they might actually could drive it to Warp Factor 10, the correct visual impression of scale, on and on we could go. So, yes, it accomplished much of its goal.
Yet, in some ways I liken it to The Beatles’ Magical Mystery Tour film – as far as my disappointment with it, in contrast with A Hard Day’s Night and Help – both of which were great. I’m paraphrasing someone else’s words from a long time ago, but MMT came off as a film that was made with no real story, just the hope that the cast could get together and magic would happen.
To me, the chemistry between the actors/characters in TMP just wasn’t quite the magic it was in the TV show.
That said, TWOK was more of a return to the “intimacy” of TOS, cast – wise, and I feel it balanced and complemented TMP.
Had TMP been the only film entry, I would have been left feeling somewhat let down, and I would have been ok if TWOK had been the finale.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 8:01 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Director cuts could never be better because they inevitably have to reuse, cut or loop the existing soundtrack to fit the new narrative. That butchery alone makes directors cuts inferior.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 8:09 AM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)



Scott, are you saying that the tears moment was snipped on the Director's cut?
Because it's still there.


Nope, I meant it was a mistake to lose it in the theatrical. I could have been more clear. I was saying why I don't feel the theatrical is really the most effective version of the film.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 8:30 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

I've never understood the hate for TMP. I was absolutely blown away when I saw it on the big screen on release. It was a genuine feature film - as the title itself states. Maybe it had more of Roddenberry's loftier ideas, and you can feel elements (eg. the command structure onboard the Enterprise) of the pilots and the Next Generation in it.

For me there are two main ways of looking at this first cinema installment.

First it's a Star Trek feature made as if it was in the wake of 2001 (those lofty ideas), whereas Wrath of Khan feels like it was made in the sf boom created by Star Wars. 2001 didn't create a movie boom as such and so studios didn't bankroll sf films as a mega popular genre like they did after Star Wars. 2001 was more of a critical success, Star Wars of course the commercial one. The only thing to try and emulate 2001 as a space opera was Trek's first tv rival attempt, Space 1999.

Second, I look at TMP as another pilot where everything is being set up (this time for the cinema), and the rest of the movies are the series, where the character interplay etc., is settling down into a regular show.

I'm happy with both approaches. I don't see why it has to be one or the other. Of course we might argue the best of both worlds is to get the balance right every time. But movie history shows us time and again that's not as easy as we'd like it to be.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 8:55 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Almost everyone in this thread loves TMP, so I'm not seeing alot of "hate" here. I've pointed out some objective reasons which are perfectly understandable, whether they're important to others or not.

Comparing the TV show and movies is perhaps unfair, like apples and oranges. But I would still ask the question I ask about remakes, reboots or ripoffs: would those have inspired the original to have been created afterwards? Usually the answer is "no," they are simply using the "good will" or reputation of the original, not adding to it. That's how I feel about the movies, but I also feel that way about later TOS seasons so I'm probably on the lunatic fringe. wink

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 3:27 PM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

Speaking of...

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-first-ever-star-trek-film-celebrates-its-40th-anniversary-as-star-trekthe-motion-picture-returns-to-the-big-screen-for-two-days-only-300891965.html

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2019 - 3:35 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

But I would still ask the question I ask about remakes, reboots or ripoffs: would those have inspired the original to have been created afterwards? Usually the answer is "no," they are simply using the "good will" or reputation of the original, not adding to it. I'm probably on the lunatic fringe. wink


You're definitely not alone, bud.

 
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